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View Full Version : Strange LXV starting problem.



ajsboat
06-01-2009, 02:06 PM
So after about 5 hours or so running my 04 LXV doing water sports, ran just like it should. We turned it off to pack the wakeboards and tube away. Went to start it up to drive back to the dock and it cranked fine but then died. Crank fine and died again. Tried many more time with the same result. I let it set of about 10 minutes and I tried again same thing.

Finally I gave full throttle in neutral and it started and about died again, but I was able to barely keep it idling in gear. I was able to drive it back to the dock, about 2 miles, just barely running roughly. It seems like its starving of fuel but it was weird that after running fine all day, this just started.

BTW its the 320HP EFI.

Any thoughts?

O and one more thing, I started it up the next day in my drive way and it ran fine for about 2 minutes. But, haven't taken out again to really test it.

Thanks
Adam

ToddXLV
06-01-2009, 02:54 PM
Hard to know exactly but it sounds like your fuel pump going out. Were you getting detination (popping) before it died?

lancesaville
06-01-2009, 02:55 PM
I've heard of some folks running their boat for a couple hours and the fuel pump gets hot and a similar situation can occur when they shut off the motor and it's still hot. Check with your dealer tho and see what they think it is. Alternatively you can do a forum search for fuel pump and see if anyone else's previous solutions help you out or sound like the exact problem. Good luck bro.

ajsboat
06-01-2009, 03:41 PM
Thanks for the input. NO I didn't hear anything abnormal before we shut it off. However, it would be hard to hear anyway between the engine cover and the radio on.

I turned the key off after it was running fine, before the problem started. It did not turn off on its on.

I was wondering if it got hot however the temp gauge never went above ~170 and was normally around 150 or so.

Thanks for your reply.

I have also heard that the enthol in gas these days might cause fuel pumps go out quicker. Any body hear this before?
Adam

ajsboat
06-01-2009, 04:40 PM
I've been reading some more on this, and it sounds like it could be Vapor Lock.

Does anybody else agree?

Also if it is vapor lock, wouldn't it clear its self up after about 1 hour of rough idling?

I run my blower always when the engine is on. The boat was only off for about 5 minutes before i started it again.

mmandley
06-01-2009, 06:39 PM
I don't think the blower will help much. Its more designed as a safety system to evac any fumes form the engine compartment.

If your running fuel injection then you wont have vapor lock from what i understand. Vapor lock is from raw fuel at a more stationary pressure expanding into vapors from residual heat of the engine and then basically the injector in the Carb gets Vapor in it instead of raw liquid fuel.

Well i have been flooded with post findings on Vapor lock in the system. It seems its from the fuel filter not the fuel injection and this can make a lot more since to me. Seeing how in boats the fuel system is very short and the lines are in the heat of the trans and engine bays. With cars the lines are under the car and are very unlikely to vapor lock on a fuel injected car.

I might be wrong on this. I don't deal with Carbs to much.

Id be suspecting the fuel pump a lot more.

Remember the temp gauge your looking at is Water temp threw the engine and theres no gauge or way to check a fuel pump temp.

ajsboat
06-01-2009, 07:41 PM
Thank for the reply.

Where is the fuel pump located. Also if that is the problem would it be likely that the boat would start up and run fine in my driveway the next morning?

Adam

mmandley
06-01-2009, 07:44 PM
Yes if that was the issue, vapor lock it would start as soon as you cooled it off because vapor lock is the liquid fuel vaporizing. The fuel system cant pump air.

As fare as its location it sounds like it should be under the rear seat, under the fiberglass panel there. Lower corner you can see the side of the fuel tank and should be able to follow the fuel lines.

ajsboat
06-01-2009, 07:55 PM
Yes if that was the issue, vapor lock it would start as soon as you cooled it off because vapor lock is the liquid fuel vaporizing. The fuel system cant pump air.

As fare as its location it sounds like it should be under the rear seat, under the fiberglass panel there. Lower corner you can see the side of the fuel tank and should be able to follow the fuel lines.

I meant if the fuel pump was the issue would it start fine the next morning?

Adam

mmandley
06-01-2009, 08:20 PM
Fuel pumps can do a lot of funny things. Yes it could work the next morning because its cooled off also and would work normally. When it gets hot from using it then you shut the boat off. The pump is cooled by the fuel flowing threw it, so when you shut it off it gets hotter.

Some fuel pumps ive read about on this forum run great then do what yours does, then run great for a few hours again. Fuel pumps are tricky to diagnose but between the pump and fuel filter, one of these is generaly causing ost of the problems in the fuel system.

You can start by just replacing the fuel filter, even if its not the main issue your going to have to replace it with a new pump anyhow.

sandm
06-01-2009, 08:25 PM
vapor lock sounds like. problem with skiers choice and several other boats are that the fuel pump is in the engine compartment and gets too hot. ethanol lowers the boiling point of gas to something like 150deg. doesn't take much to do it..
adding a second fuel pump inline back toward the tank is one fix that seems to have worked in many other boats. we have just resorted to running the blower and not had any issues since...

ajsboat
06-01-2009, 08:25 PM
Fuel pumps can do a lot of funny things. Yes it could work the next morning because its cooled off also and would work normally. When it gets hot from using it then you shut the boat off. The pump is cooled by the fuel flowing threw it, so when you shut it off it gets hotter.

Some fuel pumps ive read about on this forum run great then do what yours does, then run great for a few hours again. Fuel pumps are tricky to diagnose but between the pump and fuel filter, one of these is generaly causing ost of the problems in the fuel system.

You can start by just replacing the fuel filter, even if its not the main issue your going to have to replace it with a new pump anyhow.

Thanks again for the good info.

The fuel filter I'm sure is easy to replace. How difficult is it to replace the pump. How much should each cost?

Thanks again.

ajsboat
06-01-2009, 08:26 PM
vapor lock sounds like. problem with skiers choice and several other boats are that the fuel pump is in the engine compartment and gets too hot. ethanol lowers the boiling point of gas to something like 150deg. doesn't take much to do it..
adding a second fuel pump inline back toward the tank is one fix that seems to have worked in many other boats. we have just resorted to running the blower and not had any issues since...


Does it happen on EFI motors?

mmandley
06-01-2009, 08:29 PM
Filter maybe 15 to 20 bucks id expect at your local parts store.

Pump no telling, i dont think they are like car sending units that range from 100 to 200. Have to get some of the other senior guys here that have done these replacements to help ya on that one.

ajsboat
06-01-2009, 11:59 PM
thanks again.

cab13367
06-02-2009, 02:52 AM
Definitely sounds like vapor lock. Was it a hot day? This has happened to my brother on his fuel injected Tige 24V and I have read about it happening to others many times. Run your blower all the time when it's hot, and open the hatch for a bit if you are going to park for a while.

I hear there is a quick fix while on the water that involves placing a wet towel over the fuel pump to help cool it off and liquefy the fuel again.

Al

ajsboat
06-02-2009, 06:04 PM
Thanks

I'm hoping it was vapor lock, because that would mean my fuel pump is working normal for these boats.

It was a very warm day ~90, but I have had this boat for 3 years now and put about 80 hours on it and driven it during many 100 degree days and it has never done this before.

ToddXLV
06-03-2009, 01:03 AM
Yeah, I got slight vapor lock today as our temps were around 90. Pretty warm for this early up here in Seattle. I went to start the boat and it sputtered a little bit then I hit the blower and it seemed to run fine after about 2 minutes of running the blower. It feels like it's starving for fuel.

I'm going out again tomorrow and it actually suppose to be a bit warmer so we'll see if that happens again.

ToddXLV
06-03-2009, 01:06 AM
you've described pretty much exactly what I had experienced- my rig is an 06 outback and it's got a carb - I ruled out the vapor-lock due to the temps - the pump would work fine then quit- if you open the engine compartment and run the throttle a few times you should smell gas (in my case I can see it with the carb) if you don't its likely your pump- that other post on the fuel filter was good advice. - I put on the indmar replacement (purchased through an autoparts store) and so far so good - its running smoother, quicker starts and overall the piece of mind is priceless... cost about 150 bucks at an autoparts store- the install is also a piece of cake - if you want I'll pass along the part number which should help you immensely just let me know. Interestingly - the local dealer in this neck of the woods runs a ski school and otherwise really uses thier moombas - this season - 2 of thier boats have had similar problems...

Yep, I had a Quadrajet 4 barrel carb on a chevy 350 in my old Seaswirl Spyder that would do that all of the time. I love fuel injection.

ajsboat
06-03-2009, 10:40 AM
My is EFI not a carb. Maybe that makes a difference maybe not.

It seem like its the fuel pump, whether its going bad or just vapor lock, I don't know.

One more piece of information that might help is, when it would run barely, the RPM's would jump up and down on it on without me touching the throttle.

ajsboat
06-03-2009, 10:42 AM
- that other post on the fuel filter was good advice. - I put on the indmar replacement (purchased through an autoparts store) and so far so good - its running smoother, quicker starts and overall the piece of mind is priceless... cost about 150 bucks at an autoparts store- the install is also a piece of cake - if you want I'll pass along the part number which should help you immensely just let me know. Interestingly - the local dealer in this neck of the woods runs a ski school and otherwise really uses thier moombas - this season - 2 of thier boats have had similar problems...

The fuel filter cost $150? or the pump?

helix_rider
06-03-2009, 08:20 PM
Did you guys find any resolution to this? I had to be towed in today for the first time in 4 years. We wakeboarded for about 2 hours, then sat around for an hour swimming, etc. Decided it was time to head home and after the engine turned over...it wouldn't stay 'lit'. Grrr.

So after calls to my dealer and SkiDim, I'm pretty confident my fuel pump is gone and am getting ready to drop the $$ for a new one. I then read this thread, so go outside and BINGO, engine starts up first time just perfectly and purrs away?!?

I now don't want to get a new pump, but then again, don't want to have to get towed again either.

Can anyone give me some piece of mind? :)

ajsboat
06-03-2009, 08:39 PM
Did you guys find any resolution to this? I had to be towed in today for the first time in 4 years. We wakeboarded for about 2 hours, then sat around for an hour swimming, etc. Decided it was time to head home and after the engine turned over...it wouldn't stay 'lit'. Grrr.

So after calls to my dealer and SkiDim, I'm pretty confident my fuel pump is gone and am getting ready to drop the $$ for a new one. I then read this thread, so go outside and BINGO, engine starts up first time just perfectly and purrs away?!?

I now don't want to get a new pump, but then again, don't want to have to get towed again either.

Can anyone give me some piece of mind? :)

No I have not found a solution yet. I have not been on the water again since to test it out.

However, vapor lock seems like a Bigger possibility right now than bad pump. Why it hasn't done it in the past 3 years I have had the boat. IDK. Maybe because Enthol mixed fuels are everywhere now and that differently helps you get vapor lock on prone engines. Also maybe my fuel filter is more clogged now.

I know more next time I take my boat out again. But I am not changing fuel pump til I know for sure.

mmandley
06-03-2009, 09:36 PM
Fuel Filters are cheap. If your not replacing them each year then your begging for low cost fix big headache problems. Its not much different the an oil filter. Those are replaced each oil change. Id seriously recommend replacing those fuel filters each summer when you get the boat out of storage again.

As for the vapor lock problem, since we are all being more aware its an issue this summer, just remember, we all generally have cold drinks on the boat, take a small towel and dunk it in that ice water and start running if down the fuel lines.

Another thing lets run them blowers more often when we stop after making our boats work pulling people.

After reading tons of these same types of posts, i know i will be running that blower for 15 to 20 minutes when we stop the engine, and if i do run into a vapor lock ill be using a towel in cold water, hate to have to resort to this being an issue we cant fix readily but sometimes you have to go with the flow to get er dun.

ajsboat
06-03-2009, 09:51 PM
Fuel Filters are cheap. If your not replacing them each year then your begging for low cost fix big headache problems. Its not much different the an oil filter. Those are replaced each oil change. Id seriously recommend replacing those fuel filters each summer when you get the boat out of storage again.

As for the vapor lock problem, since we are all being more aware its an issue this summer, just remember, we all generally have cold drinks on the boat, take a small towel and dunk it in that ice water and start running if down the fuel lines.

Another thing lets run them blowers more often when we stop after making our boats work pulling people.

After reading tons of these same types of posts, i know i will be running that blower for 15 to 20 minutes when we stop the engine, and if i do run into a vapor lock ill be using a towel in cold water, hate to have to resort to this being an issue we cant fix readily but sometimes you have to go with the flow to get er dun.


The funny thing is with my case, I run the blowers all the time when the engine is on. We were only stopped for 5 minutes with the engine/blowers off and it wouldn't run.

mmandley
06-03-2009, 09:56 PM
That just sucks Ajsboat. I keep fearing when we are out we are going to have this problem, we have a friend who is wake boarding with us and he is a bit of a pain in the arse when the boat gets any where near him. We always have to shut it off anytime we are near him. even when not picking him up lol.

We always shut it off when people are by the swim deck entering or exiting the boat, but its a pain each time he falls and we go by him to get him the rope and want to talk to him and have to shut it down so he will talk to us lol.

ToddXLV
06-04-2009, 07:00 AM
Yep, yep, yep fuel filter. I just figured out today I had a clogged fuel filter when I thought I was getting vapor lock. Boat was running like sheet all day... I took off the cover by the tranny and tapped on the fuel filter with screwdriver and everything cleared up. I am replacing the filter tomorrow morn.

MEDIC151
06-06-2009, 10:50 AM
Mine did the exact same thing last nite. Ran fine for an hour or so, then when I started it, it ran rough and died. Wouldn't start again. Had to be towed for the first time since 02. This is my newer boat and is an 06 XLV. I'll be replacing the fuel filter tomorrow morning since I am at the fire station. I wasn't able to get off the water till midnite because of it. I really don't want that to happen again.

ToddXLV
06-07-2009, 03:17 PM
I got 2 new fuel filters from Napa Auto Parts (Napa brand) to have 1 for backup. $11-12 per filter. I have a feeling that I have a lot of crud in my gas tank from that crappy gas I got from the fuel dock in Moses Lake, WA. So if my boat starts sputtering again then I will change out the filter again on the water.

Needless to say my boat is running like a champ! We wakeboarded and wakesurfed all day last Thursday. I think this is the best the boat has ever ran over the past 2 years since we got it? I got my ballast situation sorted out so all bags fill. Now it's all fun all OF the time baby!