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lancesaville
06-02-2009, 10:03 PM
I picked up a battery brain III off the inter-web. My LSV has two batteries, has anyone already put one of these on a dual battery setup that has any tips before I dive into this over the weekend? Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Razzman
06-04-2009, 12:17 PM
I've seen these and never seen anyone use one on a boat. If you manually disconnect your batts via the breaker after each use then this would be unneccessary imo. You'll still have the issue of isolation unless you already have an isolation device.

lancesaville
06-04-2009, 06:48 PM
glad your such an electronics/electric geek like me razzman (we use wiring, extra batteries, and sound system for extra ballast haha). Yeah after I posted I got to thinking, If I just keep it on battery one all the time, SHOULD i drain it on accident one day during a cove-stop, I could just switch over to battery 2 and start er up. Only thing is I'd have to be sure to keep battery 2 charged up since I think they'll only both charge by alternator if I have it on 1/2. does that sound right to you man, I think on 1/2 it charges both. But dealer told me to keep on one and put a trickle on 2 once a summer. hmmm. may need to call him back and get some clarification. As far as I know it's the regular moomba factory dual battery setup.

mmandley
06-04-2009, 08:11 PM
Yea it only charges the batter selected. 1 charges 1 and 2 charges 2. 1/2 charges both.

Draining works the same way UNLESS you have things wired directly to your 2 battery.

My sub amp was wired directly to my 2 battery and i kept it swtch on 1 thinking i would be safe. 3 day weekend of rain and spending time in the garage working with the boat stereo on killed battery 2. Battery 1 was at 50% and the switch was on Battery 1

Now i rewired the system and all my stereo is on Battery 2 and only the boat is on Battery 1.

Cruise with 1/2 on to charge them both.

Stop to swim and party, switch on 2 to only run the stereo.

Battery goes dead from stereo jam. Switch to 1 and start boat. Then switch to 1/2 to charge both batteries.

Get home for the night and toss the computer controlled charger on battery 2 for the night.

lancesaville
06-04-2009, 08:31 PM
Yea it only charges the batter selected. 1 charges 1 and 2 charges 2. 1/2 charges both.

Draining works the same way UNLESS you have things wired directly to your 2 battery.

My sub amp was wired directly to my 2 battery and i kept it swtch on 1 thinking i would be safe. 3 day weekend of rain and spending time in the garage working with the boat stereo on killed battery 2. Battery 1 was at 50% and the switch was on Battery 1

Now i rewired the system and all my stereo is on Battery 2 and only the boat is on Battery 1.

Cruise with 1/2 on to charge them both.

Stop to swim and party, switch on 2 to only run the stereo.

Battery goes dead from stereo jam. Switch to 1 and start boat. Then switch to 1/2 to charge both batteries.

Get home for the night and toss the computer controlled charger on battery 2 for the night.


Did you add your 2nd battery or is it factory? Can the boat be idling on battery one and switched to 1/2 without the boat dying ?

mmandley
06-04-2009, 08:53 PM
Mine was upgraded by the Dealer at the time of purchase.

Yes once the boat is running you can switch from battery 1 to battery 2 with no issues.

The same applies of i drain battery 2 down when i start the boat and switch to battery 1/2 the stereo comes right back on and everything runs normal again.

Razzman
06-04-2009, 09:33 PM
Sorry guys, actually had stuff to do! :p

Lance, i don't know what the dealer is telling you but trickling batt 2 periodically will result in a dead batt for sure. This is a prime example of why i hate these systems!

First off i've found the "factory" dual batt setup varies by dealer, it's how they "best" determine a dual batt setup should be! Unbelievable but true!

Second they all use that darn Perko switch which is such a pain to use! "Ooops! Excuse me but can you get your big butt off the seat? I have to switch batts!" Not a good scenario ten times a day or everytime you float and want to play your tunes! Add moving peeps to get to the cooler and your playing musical cushions all day! ;)

Mine had it and i gutted it in favor of an ACR system or Automatic Charging Relay from Blue Sea Systems (http://bluesea.com/), Specifically their 7650 Add A Battery kit (http://bluesea.com/category/2/productline/overview/329). There are many alternatives but this system has a switch that is OFF/ON/COMBINED and that's it! Turn to ON at beginning of day and OFF when you come off the water. COMBINED for emergency combining of both batts to start. Simple,Clean and Reliable. Period! :cool:

I will swear by this system all day long. I know there's other ways to do it but none are as easy as this imo. Your batts stay charged and you'll not worry about it anymore.

Oh yeah, you only have to move that person twice! :p

lancesaville
06-04-2009, 10:39 PM
Right on about individual dealer setups, and this is the downside of storing my boat at the lake, can't go out to the garage and double-check how things are wired. I'll give my dealer a call in the morning and be sure I'm clear on how it's setup, then I'll let you know and see what you think. The system you have sounds sweet but I didn't hear about it in time before I had the factory 2nd battery and switch installed. So for this season at least, I've gotta stick with the switch for now and figure out the best way to utilize it/wire it.

Razzman
06-04-2009, 11:09 PM
Lance here's the scenario with a Perko switch. Ideally and if done right, your start batt should be on 1 and your stereo should be on 2. So here's how it goes ...

1) Switch to 1 to start
2) After starting switch to ALL or 1/2 (depending on brand) so that both batts are charging.
3) When you float to play your tunes switch to 2.

Repeat 1&2 when you go to start and leave the float area.
Repeat 3 when you float again!
etc,
etc,
etc ....

Oh yeah don't forget to switch to OFF when done! :cry:

ARRGGGHHHHHHHHH!!! I HATE PERKOS!!! Forget any sequence and you can find yourself hosed! :mad:

lancesaville
06-04-2009, 11:28 PM
the switch looks just like this one, does that look like the one moomba uses?

http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/7388/10065977.jpg

Razzman
06-05-2009, 12:30 AM
Never seen that one Lance. Who makes it?

lancesaville
06-05-2009, 12:48 AM
Never seen that one Lance. Who makes it?

No idea, boat is miles away and this one is an image from some forum and they don't mention the brand. Looking now.

Update: looks like it's made by 'BEP' - here's a link...

http://www.jamestowndistributors.com/userportal/show_product.do?pid=12691

mmandley
06-05-2009, 04:33 AM
You can see my Perko switch in the Stereo Makeover thread under general chat close ot the end i posted some pics of my amps and it has a clear picture of the perko switch.

I will prolly upgrade to Razz's type of switch this winter. For now those lazy seat covers can move it when asked to LOL

jmvotto
06-05-2009, 07:38 AM
Lanceville,
yep its a bep marine This waht Rob @sc recomended to me yesterday. This is a dual sensing unit so the switch to 1 or 2 is for which battery is sensing. The boats come from the factory without batteries the dealer sets these up. Also rob told me us use two dual purpose batteries instead of a starting and deep cycle battery You can buy the sensing unit without the switch.

You should be all set at 1 the house battery


http://www.bepmarine.com/Single-Engine%2C-Two-Battery-Banks-180-1460.html

http://www.bepmarine.com/Dual-Sense-Voltage-Sensitive-Relay.-125Amp-%28VSR%29-166-1469.html

I looked at these last year but could find out where to buy, now ican find online.

lancesaville
06-05-2009, 04:21 PM
Talked to the dealer, everything is on #1, backup is #2, he told me to keep it on one and not think about it. If my battery goes dead, switch to #2 and start. Somehow when it's on #1 it still charges BOTH? I guess that makes sense? lol, ready to get to the lake tomorrow AM and get another look at the wiring and be sure this is gonna work like the dealer says it will.

mmandley
06-05-2009, 06:46 PM
I cant say with 100% certainty but the way the switch works is it Isolates the batteries in position 1 and 2.

If its in 1 the boat ignores Battery 2 as part of the charging system.

I know my dealer told me the exact same thing run it in 1 and never worry about a dead battery.

Just last weekend i forgot to change the switch from 2 when swimming back to 1/2 while boarding.

After a day on the water we were headed back and the HU started acting all strange and sounded bad.

I checked my Perko and it was on 2. I shut the boat down and switched it to 1 only. Boat wouldn't start gauge said battery was below 12v

Switched it back to 2 and boat started, switched it back to 1/2 for the trip to the trailer. Got home and the computer charger said battery 1 was at 15% and battery 2 was at 100%

I was pretty frustrated that my dealer didn't know how this worked exactly of they misunderstood my questioning. Eighter way this is why i have all my stereo amps on battery 2 right now, ill upgrade to Razz's style switch later.

Heres a pic of my Perko

jmvotto
06-05-2009, 11:17 PM
mmandley,

thats not a perko that lanceville is speaking of.

Perko = manual switch
BEP = automatic sensing switch

The 714-100A uses our dual sensing VSR (710-125A-DS). A welcome addition to the 701 selector switch it ensures you will always have a fully charged reserve battery. When the switch is in position 1 it becomes the sensing battery for the VSR. Battery 2 which is in isolation will be charged via the VSR when the engine is running ensuring it is always fully charged. When the switch is in battery 2 position this becomes the sensing battery and battery 1 is charged via the VSR. The fact that there is always a fully charged battery in reserve is a huge safety factor.

lancesaville
06-05-2009, 11:54 PM
mmandley,

thats not a perko that lanceville is speaking of.

Perko = manual switch
BEP = automatic sensing switch

The 714-100A uses our dual sensing VSR (710-125A-DS). A welcome addition to the 701 selector switch it ensures you will always have a fully charged reserve battery. When the switch is in position 1 it becomes the sensing battery for the VSR. Battery 2 which is in isolation will be charged via the VSR when the engine is running ensuring it is always fully charged. When the switch is in battery 2 position this becomes the sensing battery and battery 1 is charged via the VSR. The fact that there is always a fully charged battery in reserve is a huge safety factor.

Well we're hoping it will work that way :D I'll find out tomorrow for sure.

Razzman
06-06-2009, 12:17 AM
mmandley,

thats not a perko that lanceville is speaking of.

Perko = manual switch
BEP = automatic sensing switch

The 714-100A uses our dual sensing VSR (710-125A-DS). A welcome addition to the 701 selector switch it ensures you will always have a fully charged reserve battery. When the switch is in position 1 it becomes the sensing battery for the VSR. Battery 2 which is in isolation will be charged via the VSR when the engine is running ensuring it is always fully charged. When the switch is in battery 2 position this becomes the sensing battery and battery 1 is charged via the VSR. The fact that there is always a fully charged battery in reserve is a huge safety factor.

This makes me think this would not be the best scenario for our boats where the sound systems are connected to batt2. I need to look into how these work as the upgraded stereos can tax a battery.

brain_rinse
06-06-2009, 12:42 AM
mmandley,

thats not a perko that lanceville is speaking of.

Perko = manual switch
BEP = automatic sensing switch

The 714-100A uses our dual sensing VSR (710-125A-DS). A welcome addition to the 701 selector switch it ensures you will always have a fully charged reserve battery. When the switch is in position 1 it becomes the sensing battery for the VSR. Battery 2 which is in isolation will be charged via the VSR when the engine is running ensuring it is always fully charged. When the switch is in battery 2 position this becomes the sensing battery and battery 1 is charged via the VSR. The fact that there is always a fully charged battery in reserve is a huge safety factor.

This is how mine works (factory 2 battery set-up). Starter on battery 1, accessories on 2. I set the switch on 1 and never have to move it. I can drain the battery 2 with the stereo, still start the boat, and have both batteries charge once running.

jmvotto
06-06-2009, 08:04 AM
Brain rinse. Do you have the BEP vsr relay?

Razz, Here is some additional info. let me know you thoughts on this switch

The 714-100A uses our dual sensing VSR (710-100A-DS).
A welcome addition to the 701-selector switch it ensures you
will always have a fully charged reserve battery.
When the switch is in position 1 it becomes the sensing battery
for the VSR. Battery 2, which is in isolation, will be charged via
the VSR when the engine is running and battery 1 (the sensed
battery) voltage reaches 13.7 Volts, ensuring the isolated battery
is always fully charged.
When the switch is in battery 2 position this becomes the
sensing battery and battery 1 is charged via the VSR.
When the engine is stopped the battery voltages return to normal
levels, disengaging the VSR, and separating the two batteries.
The fact that there is always a fully charged battery in reserve is
a huge safety factor.


Please note: With this system the electronic loads are run off the
same battery as the engine starting, which can be a
disadvantage.

jmvotto
06-07-2009, 09:10 AM
Found an article that helps.
BEP vsr has to have the same type batteries or bank ( ie. dual purpose, dual purpose)

http://continuouswave.com/ubb/Forum6/HTML/000612.html

I have a starting battery and a deep cycle, so unless i want to buy a new battery. i am back to the isolator with heat sinks or the relay stinger or blue seas. My though is with the relay, not sure about the heat sink temperatures..

Back to square one, can you say "overanlayze" something simple.

lancesaville
06-07-2009, 11:54 PM
Ok after getting down to the lake this weekend, It does have the dual sense module, so I kept it on 1, we went to a couple cove parties and each time played the stereo for over an hour at normal volume (10-15 on the kenwood) and never had any problems, cant really ask for more as we never really stop for more than an hour. Each time I went to start the boat back up the voltmeter was above 12. Good enough for me :)

brain_rinse
06-08-2009, 11:44 AM
Brain rinse. Do you have the BEP vsr relay?
Yep, BEP VSR

jmvotto
06-08-2009, 04:52 PM
MY bad,

That post was from 2005 nad BEP has come out with a dual sensing unit for batteries that are different.since then, so the BEP VSR DS marine unit is good:)

Ed, go ahead and delete all my posts cause i went full circle on the whole dealio

jmvotto
07-26-2009, 09:31 AM
Lance ( and moomba techies, Razz that includes you), i just just installed my Bep VSR battery yesterday and moved my batteries ( the 07 OBV hole is tight):mad::mad:


do you have any pics of the wires. My accessory panel still runs with the the switch to off. I think I may need to put the accessory panel Positive wire on the common for this to be "all off" in the off position.

wiring instructions below

http://bepmarine.web03.co.nz/store/web/Catalog/Category/Battery%20Management/Battery%20Charging/Clusters/714-100A/714-100A_Wire_Dia.pdf

Thanks,

Joe

lancesaville
07-27-2009, 09:26 PM
I'm not sure JV, My dealer did the 2nd battery and switch setup for me so I can't say right off hand how everything is wired. I CAN take a pic for you and I'll make a quick schematic when I see it on friday. I definitely am sure tho, that when the switch is in the off position, the ONLY thing that works is the auto-bilge and blower fan.

Jon
07-27-2009, 10:31 PM
jv,
I installed Lance's dual battery system for him. It is wired exactly how it would be if it had came from the factory. The positive cable coming from the switch from the "1" side goes to the starting battery. The main ground cable coming from the floor also goes to the starting battery. All other cables (amps, switch panel, and ballast (for 2009's) go to the other battery. There is also a cable that coonects the (-) terminals on the starting battery and accessory battery.

The correct position for the switch when wired like this is in the "1" position. This will make sure that your starting battery is always charged. When in the "off" position it will cut the
Power to your ignition. Your switches will still have power. Do keep in mind that the 2009's have an "acc" position on the ignition switch that when in off will cut all power besides the bilge, blower, and ballast. You must turn the boat on or put in in the "acc" position for your accessories to work.

If you want to cut all power you will need to turn the switch to off and then push the red button on the breaker mounted close to the battery. The only possible thing that can draw the battery is if there is a draw from an amp or anything else wired directly to the battery like that. Remember to push the switch blade lever on that breaker back in when you want to use the boat again, and of course turn the switch back to "1". The 2009's will have 2 of these breakers, one for switch panel and the other for ballast.

gus 08 mobius lsv
07-27-2009, 11:30 PM
ok i have the perko switch added by the dealer before i took it home not factory. he didn't say anything about switching it to off when i park it at home...should i be? battery 1 and 2 operate everything which saves continuing changing the switch.
he told me leave it on all when moving to charge both batteries. when u shut down to party turn to 2 and it won't drain 1 ...now is this false since the radio will run on battery 1 as well? i don't wanna screw myself sometime while being in the middle of nowhere!
i'm gonna be doing a stereo upgrade which will drain the juice a lot faster if not done right i'm sure!

jmvotto
07-28-2009, 12:24 AM
Jon,

I wired according to the BEP instructions, which i also got from sc.

http://bepmarine.web03.co.nz/store/web/Catalog/Category/Battery%20Management/Battery%20Charging/Clusters/714-100A/714-100A_Wire_Dia.pdf

I put the postive wire from the breaker to the common(with all the accessories) on the switch like stated in the instructions. therefore off turns off evrything in the boat ( probably the auto bilge as well:confused:)

Does it matter if the negative goes to battery 2 1st and then jumped to batt 1. the floor cable is not long enough where i moved battery 1. i thought negatives just need a loop, but i could be wrong.

Thanks.

jmvotto
07-29-2009, 12:51 PM
Razz, on your blue seas system and acr when in the off position , is everything in the boat "off" or just the starting battery isloation.

thx

joe

clarkro2
09-14-2009, 01:56 PM
Sorry guys, actually had stuff to do! :p

Lance, i don't know what the dealer is telling you but trickling batt 2 periodically will result in a dead batt for sure. This is a prime example of why i hate these systems!

First off i've found the "factory" dual batt setup varies by dealer, it's how they "best" determine a dual batt setup should be! Unbelievable but true!

Second they all use that darn Perko switch which is such a pain to use! "Ooops! Excuse me but can you get your big butt off the seat? I have to switch batts!" Not a good scenario ten times a day or everytime you float and want to play your tunes! Add moving peeps to get to the cooler and your playing musical cushions all day! ;)

Mine had it and i gutted it in favor of an ACR system or Automatic Charging Relay from Blue Sea Systems (http://bluesea.com/), Specifically their 7650 Add A Battery kit (http://bluesea.com/category/2/productline/overview/329). There are many alternatives but this system has a switch that is OFF/ON/COMBINED and that's it! Turn to ON at beginning of day and OFF when you come off the water. COMBINED for emergency combining of both batts to start. Simple,Clean and Reliable. Period! :cool:

I will swear by this system all day long. I know there's other ways to do it but none are as easy as this imo. Your batts stay charged and you'll not worry about it anymore.

Oh yeah, you only have to move that person twice! :p

Razzman,

Quick question. If you have it switched to ON, does the ACR charge both batteries or do you need to put it on Combined?