PDA

View Full Version : No more sprinkler valves



Fman
07-22-2009, 06:07 PM
Hello,

I am a Supra owner (08 22V sunsport w/gravity III), usually over on the Supra forum. Wanted to pop in here and see if anyone has done the upgrade ballast fill system on there Moomba? I am in the middle of removing the sprinkler valves and replacing them with Tsunami 800's, so I will have a seperate pump for each bag. I have already removed the intake grate, grinded down the scupper, and re-installed. My parts to complete the project will be here tomorrow and I hope to have it finished by tomorrow night. I am installing the vented loops for each bag to prevent any filling of the bags when not filling with the pumps. Wiring is already there because of the sprinkler valves.

Just wanted to find out if anyone has done this yet and if they had any tips. I will post pictures when I am done, the new system will fill my 2000 lb system in about 5.5 minutes, compared to about 13-14 minutes with the single pump.

Thanks,
Travis

mmandley
07-22-2009, 06:10 PM
Travis sounds cool and welcome to the Moomba forum also.

Razzman is doing a set up with the Vented Loops as well. Several of us are kinda waiting to see how it works out before the big plunge, so to speak. Ill be looking forward to the results as this winter i want to redo the ballast system on my LSV as well.

sandm
07-22-2009, 06:13 PM
several posts on this topic around here, especially this spring.
browse around or search and you will find a ton.
razz has been looking into some interesting ideas...
good luck and welcome. I think you will find this to be a much more informational board than the supra forums for wakeboats. I know I have :)

Fman
07-22-2009, 07:36 PM
Jason at wakemakers is helping me with this conversion. They have done a few boats themselves with good results with the tsunami's. I will search around to find out if anyone has any pictures. Having a 12-14 minute fill time on my system was getting a little rediculuos, I can live with 5-6 minutes. Plus those sprinkler valves fail quite a bit probably because of the heat in the engine/trans compartment.

I can see why in '09 they went to impeller driven systems, much more effecient and can take a little more abuse. They are using the JABSCO reversible pumps. I almost went this route but the 800 Tsunamis put out a little more GPM's (9-JABSCO, 13.5-Tsunami 800) and it was about $500 less expensive.

Anyway, thanks for any feedback anyone has.

tazz3069
07-22-2009, 09:05 PM
Jason has been helping me out as well. I am waiting to get some more stuff from him. I did do all the changes. I have spent lots of money, and it still is not working right. I have one more shot before I try something else.

My system consist of:
3 Vented Loops
3 Tsunami 1200gph Pumps
3 1" Scuppers (which are going to be changed out with Thru Hull Fittings)
3 Ball Valves

I have one pumps ofr each bags. The bags fill alot faster than with the valves in them. The problem that I am having is the bags fill while boat is in motion. That is why I am removing the scuppers and replacing them with the thru hull fittings. I did keep the drain pumps the same. I am not to concern for the output as I am with the input of water.
Tazz

Fman
07-23-2009, 07:55 PM
I am doing the same exact setup except I am using the 800's, my parts will be here tomorrow and I am going to finish. I already removed the intake grate and grinded off the scupper and re-installed on the boat. I would bet when you remove the scupper it will stop water from coming into the system. With the scupper on when you drive the boat it is forcing water into the system and without the sprinkler valves the vented loops will not be able to hold back the pressure.

I will post up some pics when I am finished with the project.

moombadaze
07-23-2009, 08:34 PM
Fman, one question and then i will wait for the pictures. Did you remove the original fill pump?

Fman
07-24-2009, 02:35 AM
Original fill pump (RULE 2000) and plastic strainer will no longer be used in the system. As we all know, the RULE pump is not good for getting a prime. Leaving it in the system would be a problem. The plastic strainer just adds friction loss which decreases flow. Basically you have the grinded intake (no scupper on bottom), 90 degree elbow, ball valve, manifold with 3 tsunami's.... each Tsunami going into seperate vented loops, into the bags. I am not modifying the drain system, it seems to work well and has a seperate pump for each bag right now. Although it would be simple to install a larger pump to increase drain time, I might do this as a winter project.

Its a pretty simple system, sprinkler valve wiring will connect directly into the new tsunami's. I will post some pics of the entire install once I am finished. I am planning on finishing tomorrow, but I am leaving for a week long camping trip on Sunday, so I might not have time to put the pics up until following week.

I love my Supra, but this ballast fill system they put on this boat is weak sauce.... hopefully after the pics are up some more people who own '08s and older will tackle this project and improve there system. Especially if you have the larger 750's in the rear. Going from a 14 minute fill time to 5.5 minutes is going to be great. I am converting the entire system for under $300.

I am assuming the Moomba's are using the same sprinkler valve system???? guess I should of asked first.

brain_rinse
07-24-2009, 08:18 AM
I'll be interested to hear your results. I always assumed that when I went to dedicated fill pumps I'd have dedicated intakes (like the 09's) as well. If you can get good results with the single intake that would save a time, money, and holes in the hull.

moombadaze
07-24-2009, 09:12 AM
I am assuming the Moomba's are using the same sprinkler valve system???? guess I should of asked first.


You are correct with the sprinkler valves. sucky system for time but does work good otherwise.

tazz3069
07-24-2009, 10:19 AM
What did you use to grind of the outer cup? I might want to do this instead of taking it all off, getting holes fixed by a person you know gel coat, and put in the new fitting. To find out that this might not work. I just do not want to spend anymore money.

Razzman
07-24-2009, 10:59 AM
Tazz, use a cutting disc on a hand grinder followed up by a dremel or something similar to clean it up and fine tune it.

Fman
07-24-2009, 06:06 PM
Do not grind down the scupper on the boat! That would be VERY difficult to do without damaging your gelcoat. Not to mention, you would have flying brass right in your face, even with goggles on it would be very dangerous!

Take it off and put it in a vice, grind it down, then re-install. It will go back on with no problems, just make sure to use some 3M 4200 marine sealer all over it. Again, make sure and wear eye protection and long sleeves, it will produce a ton of brass slivers that can penetrate your skin.

Fman
07-25-2009, 08:38 PM
Good news, I finished the install of the tsunami's last night and took it out on the lake this morning for a test run. So far, so good, no leaks! and everything seems to be working great. I will be gone all week with the boat and it will be a good test run to see how it works.

I was not able to use the stock manifold that Supra uses, so I went down to Home Depot and put together one made of brass. It turned out very clean and works great. Its a pretty tight fit but I am very happy with the way it turned out, very low to bottom of the boat, so far it primes with no problems at all. I can see water start creeping up the tubes when plaining on water (25+ MPH) but so far it does not reach the vented loop, which is what the vented loops are designed to do.

Do have one question, does anyone know if the vented loops are supposed to open or closed? There is a valve on top of the loop that turns, I am not sure if I am supposed to have all the way closed or open. Right now they are in the closed position.

I will post some pics when I get back from vacation and give an update on how everything is working. Total install time was about 7 hours, and cost is right at about $300. I had to buy about 25 feet of 3/4" flexible bilge tubing to make some new runs with the vented loop system. Also the brass manifold was about $35 in parts. I could have used PVC but brass is so much stronger and I did not want to risk the PVC breaking from any rough waters in the boat, not to mention the heat of the vdrive/engine compartment is has to survive under.

Travis....

tazz3069
07-25-2009, 10:35 PM
Glad to hear that they work. This week, i will be taking off the ones that I have installed and grind off the scoops. The season is ending here soon. I would love to dial this in before the season is over. Thanks for the update on your system. I will do the same and hope everything works. Can you take pictures of where your loops are. Mine are in the far back of the boat the the lopp in the front is just above the vent hose on the driver side.

Fman
07-27-2009, 01:09 AM
I ran my vented loops in the rear ski lockers in the front section on the carpet panels, as high up as I could possibly mount them. I ran the center bag vented loop right next to the right side vented loop in the rear ski locker. Wakemakers recommended the center to be put under the drivers dash, I figured if it was not going to fill the rear sac why would it fill the center?? I am on Shasta lake all week with the boat, I will definitely have a good feel if this is going to work.

I am going to post pics of the entire project, I think grinding your scupper will make a huge difference. I can even see some pressure building without it on, can only imagine how much is generating from the scupper.

Talk to you later.

Travis

Fman
07-27-2009, 01:11 AM
One other question, are you opening the vented loops or keeping them closed???? I have the valve on top completely closed, do not know if it is supposed to be open or closed????

tazz3069
07-27-2009, 07:58 PM
What do you mean open or closed? I do know that the duck bill needs to be facing down. When I put the cap on, i put it on finger tight.

Aquaholic
07-29-2009, 11:52 AM
I'm doing the same upgrade...Where did yall find the the brass barb needed for the shutoff ball valve? Also why could'nt you reverse the direction of the scupper to stop the water injection?

tazz3069
07-29-2009, 07:24 PM
Good question. The only thing that I can think of is if you need to prime the pumps. How will that happen if the scuppers are reversed. I thought of that same thing. I was under the boat and was thinking how I can utilize the scuppers I already have. The only suggestion that was made was to cut off the cup itself. I still might keep the front part of the scupper. Any little helps to keep debris out of the pumps.

Fman
08-08-2009, 01:34 AM
What do you mean open or closed? I do know that the duck bill needs to be facing down. When I put the cap on, i put it on finger tight.

That was my question. How tight does it need to be, I have mine a little tighter than finger tight.

Fman
08-08-2009, 01:37 AM
I'm doing the same upgrade...Where did yall find the the brass barb needed for the shutoff ball valve? Also why could'nt you reverse the direction of the scupper to stop the water injection?

You will create an air pocket if you reverse the scupper, also the holes will not line up if you reverse them and you will have to put 4 more holes in the bottom of your boat. I asked the same question to wakemakers, and they said reversing the scupper was not recommended because of the air pocket it would create.

I can say, when you grind off the scupper it works great.

I purchased all my brass fittings at Home Depot, not sure what you are refering to about the brass bard for the shut-off valve. My ball valve is threaded to a 90 degree bend off the intake.

Fman
08-08-2009, 01:40 AM
Good question. The only thing that I can think of is if you need to prime the pumps. How will that happen if the scuppers are reversed. I thought of that same thing. I was under the boat and was thinking how I can utilize the scuppers I already have. The only suggestion that was made was to cut off the cup itself. I still might keep the front part of the scupper. Any little helps to keep debris out of the pumps.

If you run your boat in mercy/dirty water often you could always add an inline filter. After an entire year of running my stock Supra ballast system I had very little debris in the filter they had on the stock system. Not that it could not suck anything up and ruin a pump, anything is possible. I elected not to re-install the filter again because of space limitations and its another source of friction loss to decrease your flow rate.