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View Full Version : Fixed Front Ballast air issue



mmandley
08-04-2009, 10:09 PM
I finaly thought of a cheap and very good fix to the problem of your front ballast bags filling with air.

I know mine fills with air when im driving to the lake and sometimes even on the lake. Resulting in you have to burp the bag and this is such a pain.

What i did was install a valve in the drain line of the front ballast.

Valve $10
Hose $17
Hose clamps $3
Valve fittings $2

Now when im not using the ballast i turn the vale off. Block all incoming air. When i want to drain my ballast i open the valve and the water drains out. When you filling the ballast you can open this valve and the over flow feature still works as this is strictly an open or closed valve.

Only thing i didn't get to do was i tried to mount some brackets to hold the valve in place but the tube behind it is the engine air tube and i cant drill threw it. I think it might be metal or maybe a brace is there. Eighter way my self tapping screw didn't want to start and i didnt want to force it. From the drivers seat i can lean forward and actuate the valve so im happy.

danimal365
08-05-2009, 07:51 AM
Is the air coming from the empty line? I never made the connection... Couldn't you put a check valve there so you don't have to worry about cranking the handle?

mmandley
08-05-2009, 09:26 AM
So the issue is its the drain line from the front bag. When you pull the boat down the highway the shape of the bow is jsut enough to catch air and it fills the front bag with air.

This allows me to close off the line completely stopping any air from filling my bag.

When i am ready to drain the bag i hit the drain and open the valve. Every time i get to the lake i spend 15 minutes taking the bag out and pushing all the air out then placing it back in the locker and filling it. This saves me all that hassle.

danimal365
08-05-2009, 01:50 PM
I have the same problem but didn't put it together till your post. Do you think a check valve would work or would it have to be a ball valve?

moombadaze
08-05-2009, 02:00 PM
mmandley--simple and a awsome mod-i was just putting blue painters tape over the outlet to stop air getting in.

drewsky
08-05-2009, 04:13 PM
Awesome!!! I think this might be my next Mod...

I've been using Cork, 2 for a dollar at Lowes... :)

Spaceball 1
08-05-2009, 05:06 PM
I am confused. Why not just make a dedicated vent for the bag? On a proper bags and system for that matter has a fill line, vent line, and drain line. Who cares if the bag inflates the vent line should release the air as the bag fills with water.

mmandley
08-05-2009, 05:58 PM
I have the same problem but didn't put it together till your post. Do you think a check valve would work or would it have to be a ball valve?

I wouldn't see why a check ball wouldn't work i guess i didn't think that direction.

mmandley
08-05-2009, 06:02 PM
I am confused. Why not just make a dedicated vent for the bag? On a proper bags and system for that matter has a fill line, vent line, and drain line. Who cares if the bag inflates the vent line should release the air as the bag fills with water.

You could do this but im not sure if it would work the same, you would have to plum a line of the top drain hole in the bag at the front of the locker and pipe it back and splice it into the drain line again. At least thats what i think your talking about?

I wanted something simple and easy that didn't require a lot of plumbing changes to the system. Later in the winter when i add a nose bag i might have to go this route. Not sure. Im an advocate of KISS. Keep is simple stupid. So i try to keep things as simple as possible but i want it to be functional.

Id be interested in your idea as well with the vent. There was a good topic a while back about this vent in the front bag and thats what gave me the idea for the valve.

Spaceball 1
08-05-2009, 09:22 PM
I am an engineer and simple is my name. One vent line drill a hole in the hull and done. No valves to forget to close/open.

Not here to fight, so good job on your fix. I am just making a recommendation.

mmandley
08-05-2009, 09:37 PM
I am an engineer and simple is my name. One vent line drill a hole in the hull and done. No valves to forget to close/open.

Not here to fight, so good job on your fix. I am just making a recommendation.

Naa i never for a second thought you were. We all have ideas and all ideas are welcomed.

I can see your point if you ran a dedicated line from the front of the ski bag out the hull of the boat. That might be something i look more into when i do a nose bag. Didn't want to drill holes for now.

I like your dedicated idea though.

Spaceball 1
08-06-2009, 10:27 AM
Yeah i bought a 2001 Mobius this spring that came with the single rear ballast only and i have added an extra 700 lbs in the rear ski locker over the gas tank in addition to stock rear 300 lbs. The 700 lbs drains into the stock bag and a dedicated vent line is a must to get any good system to work correctly. I have also added about 350 to 400 to the front ski locker with a dedicated vent line also. I bought Moomba switches that match my stock panel and modified some $15 sprinkler valves from Lowes to work correctly at the low pressures produced from circulation pumps (no pulsing). I even made a 3/16" alum stand that sets on top of the gas tank to protect it from the weight of the bags. I have less than $150 for the entire system including the aluminum stand, minus the ballast bags. They came with the boat but were not integrated. The system looks completely stock and with the single stock 2000 gph pump i can fill all 1400 lbs in about 10-12 mins and drains in about 5 min. No filling when moving, no emptying when i don't want them to, and no air lock. I did have to drill 3 holes in the hull.

Not to thread jack, but if you need any help you can come to me when do that front bag.

mmandley
08-06-2009, 09:12 PM
Wow sounds really sweet. I can see how the dedicated vents would work really well. Ill hit ya up later this year when im ready to have the boat down for a few weekends for upgrades.

Fman
08-08-2009, 01:48 AM
I just ordered my parts to put a seperate vent line on each bag. I am going to tap into the existing drain lines for each bag with a Y fitting and one way check valve right near the exit hole of the boat. It looks pretty simple and will also be nice to help water spill out when the bag is full and not get pushed through the aerator pump which is how it is currently set up. I would bet I loose 15-25% of the front bag capacity right now with air build up in the bag. Luckly, my bags have en extra capped off port right now I can screw a quick disconnect into and use for the vent line.

Total cost for 3 Y fittings, 3 one way check valves, 15 ft of 3/4" no kink line, hose clamps, etc... $35/per bag. It will be nice to have it filling the correct way, its just a bummer Supra did not look at this when they engineered the system. Guess I wont go into how disappointed I was with there fill system, although I just got finished upgrading that and it works great.

brain_rinse
08-11-2009, 10:16 AM
Another option is just unconnecting the quick release drain connection on the front bag. Fman, sounds like you'll have the proper system once you're all done.

mmandley
08-16-2009, 11:04 AM
Another option is just unconnecting the quick release drain connection on the front bag. Fman, sounds like you'll have the proper system once you're all done.

Yes you could unhook the line but i wanted somethign simple that i wouldnt have to crawl into the ski locker every time to hook and unhook.

I took it out to the lake last week and there was no air in my bag. Till i turned on the pumps and it pumped it full of air from the line.

Guess ill be looking more into this vent line idea this winter. Or i could unhook the fill line and turn it on a second then hook it to the bag while water is comming out then no air.

Such a frustrating problem.

KINGCOBRA
07-23-2012, 08:47 AM
I just recently started having this problem and were wondering what you ever did to fix it. Thanks

brain_rinse
07-23-2012, 12:44 PM
On my boat I vented all the bags and put an inline check valve to keep air from entering back in. Just like fman described above. 2 seasons and no issues.

KINGCOBRA
07-23-2012, 02:49 PM
It took me a minute(or 5) to digest what fman did. Just to be straight, I'm going to attach hose to 3rd fitting on bag (the one that is currently plugged) and run that up to a Y-fitting to which I also connect the drain hose form bag and after the Y-fitting attach the check valve and then connect that to the thru hull fitting. Is that right? Thanks

ga-lsv05
07-23-2012, 02:58 PM
When you get the parts, could you post some pics and where you purchased them? Would like.to do this upgrade myself

2005 mobius lsv 2900lbs ballast

brain_rinse
07-23-2012, 03:53 PM
It took me a minute(or 5) to digest what fman did. Just to be straight, I'm going to attach hose to 3rd fitting on bag (the one that is currently plugged) and run that up to a Y-fitting to which I also connect the drain hose form bag and after the Y-fitting attach the check valve and then connect that to the thru hull fitting. Is that right? Thanks

You got it! I had a pic but it got lost in the upgrade. I'll see if I have it saved on my computer tonight.

Here is the check valve: http://www.wakemakers.com/marine-check-valve.html
and the wye fitting: http://www.wakemakers.com/hose-barb-wye.html

cpatten
07-23-2012, 09:42 PM
Just curious has anyone tried this from wakemakers; it seems a bit pricey though!

http://www.wakemakers.com/supra-moomba-vent-upgrade-kit.html

upgrade kit includes everything you need to add a dedicated vent connection without drilling any holes in your boat. Installation takes approximately 15 minutes, and when done, your bag will be vented correctly ensure any air that ends up in the bag (from trailering the boat, putting it on your left, etc.) is able to vent during filling. In some applications, that can mean an additional 200 pounds of ballast in a bag that looked completely full, but was actually half full of water and the

ga-lsv05
07-24-2012, 09:45 AM
I believe that setup is exactly what we all have in mind just sourcing the parts seperately to lower the cost

2005 mobius lsv 2900lbs ballast

KINGCOBRA
07-24-2012, 04:13 PM
Hey ga-lsv05, I just ordered my parts from wakemakers. I got the check valve and wye fitting that brain linked to above. I spent morning going to our home depot and lowes with no luck at finding them. I also ordered the hose from wakemakers. I've used them a few times and gotta say that they are great to work with. I was mainly hoping to find parts locally so that I don't have to wait for the delivery man.

ga-lsv05
07-24-2012, 04:20 PM
Hey ga-lsv05, I just ordered my parts from wakemakers. I got the check valve and wye fitting that brain linked to above. I spent morning going to our home depot and lowes with no luck at finding them. I also ordered the hose from wakemakers. I've used them a few times and gotta say that they are great to work with. I was mainly hoping to find parts locally so that I don't have to wait for the delivery man.

Yea $44 isn't alot of money from wakemakers and they are great but i was thinking we could source the parts for like less than $20. Maybe not though if you've already looked

2005 mobius lsv 2900lbs ballast

wolfeman131
07-24-2012, 04:22 PM
You'll waste that $24 savings driving all around looking for the parts. Remove the stress from your life. Call Wakemakers.

ga-lsv05
07-24-2012, 04:23 PM
You'll waste that $24 savings driving all around looking for the parts. Remove the stress from your life. Call Wakemakers.Nah i'll just leave it. The 2013 has a tank in the front right

2005 mobius lsv 2900lbs ballast

wolfeman131
07-24-2012, 04:26 PM
yep. hard tank where the current "ski locker" bag is now and room up front for an IBS

KINGCOBRA
07-24-2012, 07:18 PM
Yea $44 isn't alot of money from wakemakers and they are great but i was thinking we could source the parts for like less than $20. Maybe not though if you've already looked

2005 mobius lsv 2900lbs ballast I only had to spend $34 and that is with 12' of hose + parts, I had a $5 coupon for reviewing the 1100# upgrade I got from them. Your sig. says '05 LSV but your mentioned the 2013, sounds like you're making an upgrade.

KINGCOBRA
07-25-2012, 10:41 AM
My "only $34" should have included that $8 of that is shipping.

ga-lsv05
07-25-2012, 02:03 PM
I only had to spend $34 and that is with 12' of hose + parts, I had a $5 coupon for reviewing the 1100# upgrade I got from them. Your sig. says '05 LSV but your mentioned the 2013, sounds like you're making an upgrade.

I'm certainly hoping to make an upgrade to the 2013

2005 mobius lsv 2900lbs ballast

jstenger
07-25-2012, 02:12 PM
It took me a minute(or 5) to digest what fman did. Just to be straight, I'm going to attach hose to 3rd fitting on bag (the one that is currently plugged) and run that up to a Y-fitting to which I also connect the drain hose form bag and after the Y-fitting attach the check valve and then connect that to the thru hull fitting. Is that right? Thanks

Correct me if I am wrong, but shouldn't the check valve only be on the vent line and not the drain line. If not, there is a slight chance that the drain pump would just keep circulating the water, because of the loop below the thru-hull fitting.

mnpracing
07-25-2012, 02:22 PM
Correct me if I am wrong, but shouldn't the check valve only be on the vent line and not the drain line. If not, there is a slight chance that the drain pump would just keep circulating the water, because of the loop below the thru-hull fitting.

check valve should be between the vent port on the bag and the wye or T ( i use a T) fitting. There should be nothing but hose between the wye and the thru-hull on the side of the boat.

KINGCOBRA
07-25-2012, 02:57 PM
Correct me if I am wrong, but shouldn't the check valve only be on the vent line and not the drain line. If not, there is a slight chance that the drain pump would just keep circulating the water, because of the loop below the thru-hull fitting. I understand your point, but wouldn't that set up lead me back to the original problem of air entering the bag thru the drain line when I'm towing the boat on the trailer?

mnpracing
07-25-2012, 03:00 PM
I understand your point, but wouldn't that set up lead me back to the original problem of air entering the bag thru the drain line when I'm towing the boat on the trailer?

King, as long as you have a vent properly installed, it doesn't matter if you get air in the bag. When it's filling with water, the air will get pushed out the vent line.

KINGCOBRA
07-25-2012, 03:20 PM
Very good point

KINGCOBRA
08-29-2013, 04:37 PM
I now have the problem that the water level in the bag gets above the vent line before all of the air can be pushed out. I read somewhere that I'm not the only one with this issue. To fix it I removed the vent line and plugged up that hole again. I then installed the check valve on the drain line just before it exits the boat. Problem solved,no more air in my bag.