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deerfield
10-09-2009, 09:26 PM
Finished the collector today. Used PVC pieces to create a means of capturing (without a mess) and recirculating antifreeze through the engine. Tomorrow I will adapt a feeder line from a capture tank (probably a twenty gallon bucket positioned under the collector end) to the raw water impeller. By letting the engine idle and come up to operating temperature I hope to also get antifreeze through the lines and core of the heater. Also will change oil and filter. Have not made up my mind whether to pull the engine block drain plugs and empty lines, or leave everything intact for the winter. Will post more pics tomorrow.

jmvotto
10-09-2009, 10:14 PM
Deerfield, I am impressed.....

jester
10-09-2009, 10:17 PM
That is a good idea. Nice work. When this spring comes i really want to hear how cold it gets and how well it worked.

jjerrod
10-10-2009, 02:29 AM
why would you want to drain the engine block for the winter if you have had antifreeze in it?

sandm
10-10-2009, 06:57 AM
second that. if you are going to run antifreeze thru the block, just leave it all winter and flush it out in the spring when you launch the boat for the first time.

mmandley
10-10-2009, 07:22 PM
I realy like your idea man. Nice and clean looking. I do have to say im a bit worried about the back pressure your going to create on the engine. Even at idle it will take a bit to warm up, and you have the correct dyameter pipe for the exhaust but your taking a 3inch into a 1inch along with the water.

Are you worried that the amount of water exiting the pipe and draining into the small hole of about 1inch isnt going to choke the engine?

Might have been better to just run the full dyameter pipping right to your 20gal bucket? Then it would be much more like the atmosphere its used to being in while idling in a lake?

Im not knocking your idea or the system your build its tight looking to me im just asking because these are the concerns i have looking at it.

deerfield
10-10-2009, 09:35 PM
UPDATE: Ran the engine till it reached operating temperature. Took no more or less time than sitting in lake water. As mmandley noted, there is a reduction in the PVC size. It starts at 4" and goes to 2", so back pressure was not an issue. After reaching operating temperature, I shut off the engine, emptied the catch basin, and filled it with 3 gallons of non-toxic antifreeze. Started the engine and let it run for about 5 minutes. Ran the heater for confirmation that the engine thermostat was open allowing antifreeze to circulate through the heater core as well as the engine.

How do I remove the flame arrestor? Need to do that in order to fog the engine. For the life of me I could not get it off the intake manifold neck.

KurtL
10-10-2009, 10:30 PM
Deerfield, Great idea! How did you connect the pvc to the exhaust? 3 gallons was enough?

Really a great idea. I just spent $412 to have my dd oil changed and winterized. Winterization and summerization was close to $700 with just one oil change.

viking
10-10-2009, 11:55 PM
Deerfield, Great idea! How did you connect the pvc to the exhaust? 3 gallons was enough?

Really a great idea. I just spent $412 to have my dd oil changed and winterized. Winterization and summerization was close to $700 with just one oil change.

Kurt,
What do you do to have it "summerized'? Isn't it usually ready to go in the spring after a winterization and oil change/service?

OH, and Deerfield - Genius idea. I might be doing that next season!!
Thanx for the pics

newty
10-11-2009, 12:05 AM
Looks like a great idea! I was a little skeptical about the impeller pulling water from the basin, but looks like it worked. Again nice job!

deerfield
10-11-2009, 12:08 PM
How do I fog the engine? Do I remove spark plugs and spray direct into the cylinders? How much is too much spray? Can't get the flame arrestor off. Thanks.

cab13367
10-11-2009, 05:03 PM
Deerfield,

There should be a huge hose clamp at the base of the flame arrester. Loosen that and then wiggle the thing off. With the engine running, spray fogging oil into the throttle body for a good 3-4 seconds then immediately turn the engine off. Then remove all the spark plugs and spray fogging oil into each spark plug hole (using the spray tube) for about two seconds. Then with the plugs still out, crank the engine for about a second, just enough for the pistons to go up and down a couple times.

deerfield
10-29-2009, 12:17 AM
yearround - The Home Depot receipts are vague. They list by such item terms as cleaner, fitting, and pipe, but provide no sizes. Total cost for PVC pieces w/ tax came to $59.11. I also bought the flap wheel sander at Home Depot. Cost $7.97. Used it to open up the inside diameter of the main collector tubes of the manifold assembly. Off the shelf they were just a hair too tight of a fit over the exhaust pipes. As mentioned in my PM earlier today, I had to sand them (used the 60 grit course) for a proper fit. When installed, manifold does not conflict with exhaust flaps. Here's a few more pics to help explain the approach I took. - Deerfield

deerfield
10-29-2009, 12:25 AM
Deerfield,

There should be a huge hose clamp at the base of the flame arrester. Loosen that and then wiggle the thing off. With the engine running, spray fogging oil into the throttle body for a good 3-4 seconds then immediately turn the engine off. Then remove all the spark plugs and spray fogging oil into each spark plug hole (using the spray tube) for about two seconds. Then with the plugs still out, crank the engine for about a second, just enough for the pistons to go up and down a couple times.

cab13367 - I removed the hose clamp around the base but for the life of me I could not get the flame arrestor off. It was crazy. The flame arrestor would rotate but when I pulled up it refused to cooperate. It was almost as if there was some anchor inside the flame arrestor. So....I left it in place rather than risk damage to something that was hidden. I pulled the spark plugs to fog each cylinder and cranked the engine several seconds after disconnecting the main distributor wire. A mystery.. - Deerfield

cab13367
10-29-2009, 12:50 AM
deerfield,

Yes, it was struggle to get mine off as well. It's a very tight friction fit.

Al

DOCDRS
10-29-2009, 01:23 AM
Deerfield, Great idea! How did you connect the pvc to the exhaust? 3 gallons was enough?

Really a great idea. I just spent $412 to have my dd oil changed and winterized. Winterization and summerization was close to $700 with just one oil change.


That much to do an outback ls........sounds outrageous... did they shrinkwrap it and store it as well?......sounds like your in muskoka

DOCDRS
10-29-2009, 01:28 AM
Cab , Deerfield, Razz and Tazz are the Costco of moomba, these guys have some of the most cost effective rational how too methods for service and mods most will ever require....keep up the good work and sorry to all the others i missed..:)

yearround
10-29-2009, 12:17 PM
thanks for the info. i don't konw how i missed this thread when it first started. i dind not see it until today, but i saw your pics on another thread.

i will try and get the stuff today when i am at the HD or the blue store. should be a snow day today, but i am trying to work.

yearround
10-30-2009, 06:19 PM
do you put this over the exhaust flap? or inside the flap? the top of the exhaust is not round. i guess i could pull the flap off.

deerfield
10-30-2009, 10:51 PM
yearround - Outback exhaust has a different design where it comes through the hull. Instead of outside as on your LSV, the flap swings from inside the exhaust tip as you can see from the picture I took this evening and posted below. Can you fit the PVC collector tube over the tip if you remove the flap? If not or the flap is not removable, can you fit the PVC inside the exhaust tip? - Deerfield

DOCDRS
10-31-2009, 12:44 AM
looks like Deer has a diff wakeplate, you could possibly just drop your plate down and put a big tupperware container under it to catch all the exhaust, but can't remember how forceful the exhaust is at idle. next spring i'm checking mine.........also curious...do you still remove the impeller after this?

I know there was some debate on taking the impeller out on winterizing and i have some additional thoughts. Along long time ago i used to own a 90 merc outboard.......i always winterized it myself and never changed the impeller in over 10 years i had the boat......not sure if it gets compressed on the one side like the inboards....food for thought...maybe i should have added it to moombadaze's random thoughts

deerfield
10-31-2009, 11:52 AM
put a big tupperware container under it to catch all the exhaust

Doc - Exhaust even at idle rpm comes out pretty strong amd horizontal. To keep from making a mess and losing antifreeze during the winterization process, best to use some sort of collector right at the end of the exhaust and divert it into a container. - Deerfield

DOCDRS
10-31-2009, 12:34 PM
THanks deer, had a feeling that may be the case but i ran mine once out of the water and thats was years ago. Thanks for the info and reply

snowboardcorey
10-31-2009, 03:30 PM
I would recommend removing the anitfreeze from the block just in case you got a bad batch of RV or in case it mixed with any water in the block thereby diluting the mix. No liquid equals no expansion in the event of freezing.

Other than the time it takes to drain the RV I see no benefits of not draining it.

deerfield
10-31-2009, 06:35 PM
snowboardcory - The antifreeze I bought at West Marine is intended to be mixed with water and safe up to 40 below zero. In fact, instructions state that it should not be used full strength to prevent engine damage. I will stop by West Marine tomorrow and look again at the water/antifreeze ratio on the packaging. Good point though, as many antifreeze products are meant to be used full strength. - Deerfield

DOCDRS
10-31-2009, 07:25 PM
It looks like maybe you should drain your block and acc after wards unless you use the -100 antifreeze, depending on where you are located. Here are some interesting facts to add fuel to the debate

Now, a thing or two about freeze protection:

Most people assume that the freeze rating on the jug of anti-freeze meant that you were protected to that temperature (e.g., the anti-freeze did not freeze until that temperature was reached), The fact is, winterizing products are rated by burst protection and not freeze protection. So when we say that an anti-freeze solution will protect our copper plumbing pipes to -50 deg F, it means that a copper pipe filled with this product will burst at -50 deg F. The actual solution will start to form ice crystals at approximately +12 deg F. As the temperature drops, the solution continues to form more dense ice crystals and expands. As the solution expands, it puts more pressure on the pipe and at -50 deg F, the pipe will burst. A PVC pipe will burst at -15 deg F since it's not a strong as copper pipe.
Since a stored engine is not being used, it is not necessary to keep the system ice crystal free, only to keep it from bursting at a rated temperature. While you can buy more expensive, lower rated antifreezes, you really only need to protect yourself from burst pressure. By the same token, why not spend a couple of extra bucks buy the lowest rating available (especially given the result of a miscalculation). It's cheap piece of mind considering the cost of miscalculating your needs.

viking
11-01-2009, 09:17 PM
Deerfield,
Just to clarify,
You flush your engine with antifreeze and DO NOT drain anything right? Biodegradable I'm assuming so you can just launch and go in the spring?
What do you do with your ballast and sea strainers for winter? Remove them or drain?
Do you flush your bag with antifreeze too or drain that?

Just Curious as I have the same boat (almost exact) as you!

deerfield
11-01-2009, 10:45 PM
viking - Correct on NOT draining. I got the engine up to operating temperature, shut it off, dumped the water from the catch basin, filled it w/ three gallons of eco-friendly antifreeze (engineered to NOT BE USED full strength), and ran the engine for a final five minutes to thoroughly circulate. I did NOT touch any of the drain plugs in the engine block or exhaust manifolds. They remain exactly as they were when installed in May by the dealer as part of the summarization. Also, I did NOT disconnect lines running between the engine and heater core. Those items are protected by the antifreeze circulating when engine was at operating temperature and thermostat was open. With respect to the ballast system, I disconnected all the lines and blew them out, and am storing the ballast bag inside for the winter. I think that covers it. My boat is stored in our unheated garage where it will remain until spring time. I have a small fan that runs all winter under the cover to keep away any chance of mildew and a shop light in the engine compartment, because this is my first time winterizing on my own and am probably neurotic. Since our boats are pretty much the same, can you think of anything I forgot? Thanks. - Deerfield

viking
11-02-2009, 02:24 PM
Impeller - In or Out?
Did you change your oil? If so, what oil pump did you use?
And how about crankcase oil? My dealer said you can go many seasons without changing that?

I was out looking over my boat yesterday after all my reading on your posts and Cab's winterization thread. My dealer performed the winterization service this year but I'm going to be doing it from now on. I trust myself better than anybody else working on my stuff!

I disconnected the hoses connecting the manifolds to see what the fluid looked like (as the dealer does the Flush winterization method instead of drain) and it didn't seem to have much color? I'm a bit neurotic myself so now thinking I might pull it out of the garage and drain it for good measure.

I too store my boat in an unheated garage and can get pretty cold winters here in MT.

I took my ballast bag out as well for storage! I've heard of people putting some bleach/water mix in it and might do that.

Sled491
11-02-2009, 06:06 PM
Viking I believe you might be a bit confused. What do you mean "crankcase oil" and in the same thought talk about changing oil. They are one and the same. Did you mean transmission oil perhaps? Also Outbacks have a drain line that is long enough to get out of the floor drain and get to the driveway so no pump needed.

If you are going to change your impellor why not make it easy on yourself come spring and just put the new one in at winterization, otherwise there is no need to leave this open.

Deerfield, you are really stepping it up here! Great work. Just a note, I am a drain the system guy and have been doing my own since the first winter I got stung for 300 by our dealer. Never had a problem yet.

viking
11-02-2009, 06:31 PM
Sled,
You caught my tongue twisted thoughts :)
I meant transmission oil on the change or not to change. I would imagine you need a pump for that?

I see that there is a line to drain the motor oil and didn't know if you guys used a pump for that too or put it through the drain hole and into a container? I think you answered that. My oil was changed at the dealer this year so no worry till next.

And on the impeller. I was going to leave mine in all winter but some on this forum are recommending taking out and sealing in zip lock bag with vasiline. Just wondering what you and deerfield have done?

Either way I think I'm going to drain everything to be sure. Probably end up dumping a few gallons of water/antifreeze mix :(

Sled491
11-02-2009, 06:42 PM
If I change out my impellor, I take the old one and put it in a zip lock bag with the extra oil the new one came with and keep it as a spare, but still install the new one right away so its done and complete.

Yes to change tranny oil you need a pump. I personally have yet to do this but need to as I'm well over 100 hrs now and its something I feel I need to address.

yearround
11-03-2009, 01:17 AM
yearround - Outback exhaust has a different design where it comes through the hull. Instead of outside as on your LSV, the flap swings from inside the exhaust tip as you can see from the picture I took this evening and posted below. Can you fit the PVC collector tube over the tip if you remove the flap? If not or the flap is not removable, can you fit the PVC inside the exhaust tip? - Deerfield

the flap is removeable, but i want it simple. the flap can flip up, (wow novel) the ID of the exhaust is 3.25". 3" PVC is 3.5 OD. i sanded down the outside so i could push it in. it seem tight, but i could not try it out. i did not buy the line for the intake. i was unsure of the diameter when i was at the store. also, i was thinking to get a fake a lake and pump it in to that.

so i have my winter manifold built, will post some pics when i try it out.

yearround
11-14-2009, 11:58 PM
I tried out the manifold. Works great. I hooked up to fake a lake but I did not know that I would lose so much water out the drive shaft. I guess that is why you connected directly to the impellor?

Will get hose to do that next.