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you da man
10-20-2009, 09:35 PM
Just wondering what everyone is using...Tsunami mostly or Jabsco (09 and newer)? I'm about to take my boat to the dealer to have GG3 installed. I know the Tsunami 1200 is aerator type pump, 9 gal per min, sometimes has issues priming, and does not burn up if ran dry by accident. The Jabsco pumps are $200 more PER pump, are self priming, are more prone to burning out if ran dry, 13.5 gal per min, and is recommended to replace the impeller from black to yellow. Any input would be helpful

DOCDRS
10-20-2009, 09:42 PM
the jabsco pumps fill and drain, not sure if the tsunami drains.

sandm
10-20-2009, 10:21 PM
2 completely different setups. jabsco are more expensive, prone to burning out, but they fill/drain in one pump and I believe are self-priming and have different plumbing. tsunami are cheap, don't burn out, but you need both a fill and a drain.
I am guessing if you are getting the gIII setup, you are getting tsunami's as that it probably what an '08 would have come wired for.
to answer the basic question, I'd opt for tsunami's every time..

personally, If it was my boat, I'd get the gIII setup with tsunami's, but I'd pay the extra 2-3bills to do the mods that tazz/fman have done. eliminate the sprinkler valves and put in 3 tsunami's on a manifold to fill the bags and then the 3 drain pumps to drain them.
it seems to be a great mod that dramatically increases the fill rates and makes the ballast system more what should have been installed from the start.
if your dealer has done any ballast upgrades, they should know how to do this, complete with vented lines...

def. worth the extra money you may have to come up with from what I have read on here. it's on my list of projects this winter :)

read up on the threads and question the dealer..

tazz3069
10-20-2009, 10:50 PM
I love the mod I did on my boat. Three 1200gph Tsunami Pumps. One for each bag. That has been the great mod I have done so far. If the dealership is going to do it, I would opt for the Tsunami pumps. Are they going to put in 3 pumps or just one pump and the dreaded Sprinkler Valve garbage. If they do that, go for it. come back to the site and Myself or Fman are here to help you. If you do go through that route, I will give you all the websites to go to to get everything you need. Do not get your stuff from www.wakemakers.com. very poor customer service.
Tazz

you da man
10-20-2009, 11:29 PM
I love the mod I did on my boat. Three 1200gph Tsunami Pumps. One for each bag. That has been the great mod I have done so far. If the dealership is going to do it, I would opt for the Tsunami pumps. Are they going to put in 3 pumps or just one pump and the dreaded Sprinkler Valve garbage. If they do that, go for it. come back to the site and Myself or Fman are here to help you. If you do go through that route, I will give you all the websites to go to to get everything you need. Do not get your stuff from www.wakemakers.com. very poor customer service.
Tazz

From what the sales guy was talking was 3 pumps.

tazz3069
10-20-2009, 11:52 PM
Good three pumps is what you want. Now I would find out if they will be putting three intakes for the pumps. Will they be using vented loops? These loops take the place of the sprinkler valves. The valves restrict the water flow.

you da man
10-20-2009, 11:58 PM
Tazz, if you don't mind, from the intake on the hull all the way to the bag, what parts are involved in that order for the stock GG3. Also, on your modified system from the water intake to the bag how do the parts go in order. So I know what to ask for.

you da man
10-21-2009, 12:08 AM
If the Tsunami pumps are one way pumps (fill or empty) how does the system drain when using the 3 Tsunami pumps? I'm such a noob ;)

tazz3069
10-21-2009, 12:19 AM
First question--
Stock Ballast system goes as follow:
1-3/4" Scupper
Shut off valve
1 500gph pump
water strainer
3 sprinkler valves
bags

Modified system
3-1" scuppers
3- 1" shut off valves
3- 1200GPH Tsunami Pumps
3- 3/4" vented loops.

Second question.
I used the stock drain pumps. These are separate pumps that came stock with the boat. I do not care about the drain time only the fill time. My fill time is 7.5 min to fill 3 400lb bags. Let me find my link and I will post it for you.
Tazz

you da man
10-21-2009, 12:24 AM
First question--
Stock Ballast system goes as follow:
1-3/4" Scupper
Shut off valve
1 500gph pump
water strainer
3 sprinkler valves
bags

Modified system
3-1" scuppers
3- 1" shut off valves
3- 1200GPH Tsunami Pumps
3- 3/4" vented loops.

Second question.
I used the stock drain pumps. These are separate pumps that came stock with the boat. I do not care about the drain time only the fill time. My fill time is 7.5 min to fill 3 400lb bags. Let me find my link and I will post it for you.
Tazz

Thanks, makes sense. The dealer said he had a few 750lb sacs at the shop so he said he would order the GGIII system and would just swap out the standard rear bags for the 750lbs.

tazz3069
10-21-2009, 12:25 AM
You will three of this set-up
http://moomba.com/msgboard/picture.php?albumid=23&pictureid=795
Here is the first one
http://moomba.com/msgboard/picture.php?albumid=23&pictureid=801
Here is a picture of two scuppers Notice that I cut the cups off the scuppers. This eliminated the water being forced into the system.
http://moomba.com/msgboard/picture.php?albumid=23&pictureid=1725

you da man
10-21-2009, 12:28 AM
You will three of this set-up
http://moomba.com/msgboard/picture.php?albumid=23&pictureid=795
Here is the first one
http://moomba.com/msgboard/picture.php?albumid=23&pictureid=801
Here is a picture of two scuppers
http://moomba.com/msgboard/picture.php?albumid=23&pictureid=1725

Wow, that takes some cajones to tap into the hull like that. I wonder if my dealer has experience with that or would be willing to. I'm usually not a warranty worry wart but damn, that takes commitment.

tazz3069
10-21-2009, 12:29 AM
Vented Loop
http://moomba.com/msgboard/picture.php?albumid=23&pictureid=1417
Vented loop installed This needs to be as close to the bag and as high as it can go.
http://moomba.com/msgboard/picture.php?albumid=11&pictureid=1738
http://moomba.com/msgboard/picture.php?albumid=11&pictureid=1739
I hope this give you an idea of what the system should look like correctly. I am so glad that I did this. I really hated the sprinkler valve system. It took for ever to fill the bags.
Tazz

you da man
10-21-2009, 12:32 AM
The pics paint a much better picture of the new system. Simple in theory, just takes some time and commitment. Thanks again.

tazz3069
10-21-2009, 12:33 AM
The tools I used goes as follow
1" carbide hole saw Home Depot.
18V Dewalt cordless drill
lots of beer ( when job was done of course)
The carbide hole saw kept the gel coat from craking. It was like a hot knife through butter.
Remember, Measure 10 times and drill once.

tazz3069
10-21-2009, 12:37 AM
The pics paint a much better picture of the new system. Simple in theory, just takes some time and commitment. Thanks again.

Glad I could help you out. If they have a problem or do not understand, drop me a line. I will be more than happy to walk them through it. Or just show them this link.

sailing217
10-26-2009, 04:04 PM
Great writeup Tazz.

I'm looking to add an extra fill line to one of my bags that has an extra fill port and keep my stock 3 sprinkler valve setup. I hate the sprinkler valves but it works slow.

I have a Centurion with Enzo sac so I can't help most of you out, but similar enough. I already have the tsunami 1200 for manual fills. My G3 system has a single ballast puppy, sprinkler valves, 3 seperate drain Mayfair 1000gph pumps (3/4"), and vented bags. I also picked up a Mayfair 1200 pump but found out it's not 3/4" out so gotta upsize my lines if I use it.

Scared about drilling in the hull

tazz3069
10-26-2009, 09:12 PM
Great writeup Tazz.


Scared about drilling in the hull

Do not be scared. Just make sure when you do drill, measure and remeasure again. When I was sure were I wanted to drill, I drilled a very small pilot hole just to make sure that is were I want the hole. I figured that if it was in the wrong spot, it would be easier to fill a very small hole than a very big hole. Definitely use the carbide hole saw. It really works great. I also used blue painters tape just to make sure. I completely cover the area that I wanted to drill. It worked awesome. the other two holes went even easier. Good luck with the mod and let us know how it went.

tazz3069
10-26-2009, 09:13 PM
You Da Man--

Did you ever get your ballast system taken care of. Please let me know how it turned out.

Tazz

cab13367
10-26-2009, 09:22 PM
tazz,

It's not the drilling I'd be afraid of, it's making sure it doesn't leak afterwards :). What did you use to seal the scupper against the hull?

Some more questions:

Did you run the carbide hole saw in reverse? Did you drill from the inside out, or from the outside in (from under the boat)?

When fman removed the sprinkler valves, he grounded the scupper off to prevent the bags from filling while moving. I see that you did not ground off the scupper - are you having issues with the bags filling while moving or are the vent loops completely preventing this?

I may do this upgrade at some point but I will probably do what fman did (one intake for 3 fill pumps).

How long does it take to fill a sac with your new system vs the stock one
(and what's the weight capacity of the sac)?

Thanks,

Al

cab13367
10-26-2009, 09:28 PM
tazz,

Never mind - I see that you cut off the back (solid) part of the scupper.

Another question - why did you use 3/4" vented loops when you used a 1" scupper and shut off valves? So is the fill tubing 3/4" or 1"? Or a combination of both? Why not go 1" all the way to the bag?

Al

sandm
10-26-2009, 09:30 PM
I, too, am thinking about the single inlet for 3 pumps, as that sounds like it will increase the overall fill rate dramatically, however I am interested in 2 of the questions above, being do the sacks really not fill AT ALL, and perception on fill times, unless you timed the differences..

tazz3069
10-26-2009, 09:39 PM
tazz,

It's not the drilling I'd be afraid of, it's making sure it doesn't leak afterwards :). What did you use to seal the scupper against the hull?

Some more questions:

Did you run the carbide hole saw in reverse? Did you drill from the inside out, or from the outside in (from under the boat)?

When fman removed the sprinkler valves, he grounded the scupper off to prevent the bags from filling while moving. I see that you did not ground off the scupper - are you having issues with the bags filling while moving or are the vent loops completely preventing this?

I may do this upgrade at some point but I will probably do what fman did (one intake for 3 fill pumps).

How long does it take to fill a sac with your new system vs the stock one
(and what's the weight capacity of the sac)?

Thanks,

Al

I used a 3M Whit silicone/adhesive that I purchased at West Marine. I think they have it at Home Depot. After using the stuff, i think I takes about 24 hours for it to dry 100%. I drilled from the bottom of the boat in. No I did not need to run it back wards. There is no direction for the carbide bit. I kept the front of the scupper (screen) on to keep debris from going into the pumps. I did remove the back end. Yes it did fill while on the way. When I took the cup off, the autofill (HAHA) was over. It takes a total of 7.5min to fill all 3 bags 100%

sandm
10-26-2009, 10:35 PM
awesome.

thanks for the info. don't think I'll be starting this one until december/january, but soooooo looking forward to it. tired of 20-25 min to fill a 750 in the rear corner..

you da man
10-26-2009, 10:56 PM
You Da Man--

Did you ever get your ballast system taken care of. Please let me know how it turned out.

Tazz

Not yet. After talking to the dealership more come to find out that even though I have an 08 xlv and got the GG3 system thrown in with the deal, they are wanting to install the 09 GG3 system which is the 3 Jabsco pumps instead of the single pump that came with the 08 GG3. However, here's the weird thing. I know this dealership has been around at least 20+ years because it was there when I went to college. I don't know how long they've sold Moombas but I think pretty much since Moombas have becoming popular years ago. The service manager said that my boat will be their first install of the GG3 system for a customer and that all boats they sold either already had the GG3 system from factory or the customer did not care and just used the standard system. The service manager said, they are still waiting on the Jabsco pumps and have just got one pump in for a customer that was waiting 5-6 weeks.

you da man
10-26-2009, 10:59 PM
I, too, am thinking about the single inlet for 3 pumps, as that sounds like it will increase the overall fill rate dramatically, however I am interested in 2 of the questions above, being do the sacks really not fill AT ALL, and perception on fill times, unless you timed the differences..

Are you thinking about using the factory single intake for 3 pumps? Would there really be a benefit vs. 3 intakes given that you'll be using 3 pumps with a single intake?

tazz3069
10-26-2009, 11:51 PM
tazz,

Never mind - I see that you cut off the back (solid) part of the scupper.

Another question - why did you use 3/4" vented loops when you used a 1" scupper and shut off valves? So is the fill tubing 3/4" or 1"? Or a combination of both? Why not go 1" all the way to the bag?

Al
Honestly, I did not want to change out the entire hose system. Plus I could not, for the life of me, get the darn 3/4" connectors off the bags. So instead of buy new bags, hoses, connectors, so on and so on, I stayed with the 3/4" Still very happy with the system 7.5min to fill in not bad at all.

sandm
10-27-2009, 11:18 AM
Are you thinking about using the factory single intake for 3 pumps? Would there really be a benefit vs. 3 intakes given that you'll be using 3 pumps with a single intake?

from all the flow tests I read, the thru-hull fitting will support 3 pumps at 800gph. in the current system, it's my understanding that the holdup are the sprinkler valves and having one pump try to supply 3 different 3/4 lines not the intake.

you da man
10-27-2009, 11:58 AM
from all the flow tests I read, the thru-hull fitting will support 3 pumps at 800gph. in the current system, it's my understanding that the holdup are the sprinkler valves and having one pump try to supply 3 different 3/4 lines not the intake.

That makes since especially if you fill while underway to your favorite spot. Sounds like less work on the install and less drilling. Since the Jabsco pumps are 540gph each, then it sounds like the single intake would be the way to go. Do you anyone doing this already?

sandm
10-27-2009, 12:12 PM
drilling depends on what you have installed already.
jabsco system requires holes in the bottom of the boat for the pumps. assuming one per pump, but ed can speak to that requirement as he has it...
tsunami/rule system requires 1-3 holes in the hull depending on whether you do a manifold setup or one scupper per pump, then holes in the hull for the drains.

personally, I like the tsunami setup as you can tell when they are full from the overflow out the side of the boat, cheaper pumps that shouldn't wear out as quickly and flow more than the jabsco. believe that you have to set up a timer on the jabsco as well to shut them off when the bags are full. with the tsunami, to upgrade the bags, just put in a bigger one and shut off when it drains out the side, jabsco have to change the timer settings. jabsco pumps don't fill while moving, tsunami's can if not installed right.

there's pros and cons for each setup..

I'm doing one intake and a manifold for 3 pumps with the vented lines. a takeoff of tazz's system, think it's the same one fman put in..

cab13367
10-27-2009, 03:53 PM
jabsco pumps don't fill while moving

Actually, it sounds like that depends on which impeller you have. The ones that Ed's boat came with, apparently the vanes are too soft so they do let water through when moving. The solution is to swap it out with an impeller with stiffer vanes. But I hear that with those impellers, they will "stick" to the housing and it blows the fuse if you activate the pump. Also, the Jabsco pump will burn it's impeller if you leave it on after the bag is empty where us the Tsunamis won't. Like sandm says, they have their pros and cons.

I will probably go with one intake and three 800 gph tsunami pumps but I will enlarge the intake to 1" and will use 1" tubing to each bag instead of the current 3/4".

cab13367
10-27-2009, 03:55 PM
you da man,

Suggest you read throught this very informative post from fman regarding the three pumps/one intake upgrade.

http://moomba.com/msgboard/showthread.php?t=8849