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cab13367
11-11-2009, 11:45 AM
Those of u who have upgraded your stereo systems, did you upgrade the speaker wires to the cabin speakers or did u leave the stock wire in place? Just wondering if there is anything to be gained by replacing the stock wire with some high quality 16 gauge wire. I don't mind doing the work and can get some true to gauge monster wire pretty cheap.

Thx,

Al

sandm
11-11-2009, 12:03 PM
can't speak for already doing it, but I'm replacing mine with some better quality speaker wire as I go this winter. as I have been tearing out the old system, the stuff that skiers chose is not junk, but it's def. at the lower end of the quality spectrum.
now if I was not replacing the system, would I do it with already-installed speakers? no, probably not, but if you are replacing part of the system, might as well do it.

tazz3069
11-11-2009, 12:17 PM
I did. I took all that small cheep wire out and replaced it with quality wire. I really think that it make a difference.

mmandley
11-11-2009, 01:49 PM
Al what kind of wire do you have the hook up on? I would be interested in it. I just asked Newty the same question last night as to whether I should replace my cabin wires with new wire and he said no not realy. For the standard 70w a speaker we run to the Polks it doesn't make a noticable difference. If you run high end seperates it can make a difference.

Biggest thing is the sub needs a quality cable , mine is 12guage monster sub cable if I recall. I have a bunch if you need some I'll give ya some. I used it on my towers as well since I run a lot of wattage up there. Hard to fish it but it worked.

Razzman
11-11-2009, 02:11 PM
AL, the wire on the factory install on my '07 is 16ga. That's really all you need, any bigger is a waste. It is decent wire and to test this i ran some 16ga oxy free to one of my Polks MoMo's on one side and tested it against the other side with factory wire. Imo it made no discernable difference throughout the range.

brain_rinse
11-11-2009, 02:36 PM
The OEM speaker wires (on my 08) are plenty good. The quality difference between what's already there and what you'd buy aftermarket is almost entirely in the jacket, with the aftermarket wires being more flexible. In the case of my boat speakers, having the wire fairly rigid means you can get away with fewer wire ties to keep it off the floor.

cab13367
11-11-2009, 02:54 PM
Guys,

Thanks for the good info, as usual.

Mike,

This is the cable I am thinking of running:

http://www.monstercable.com/productdisplay.asp?pin=1602

Home Depot sells it for $30 for a 100' reel. I think it's designed for home theater use and it doesn't say that it's made of oxygen free copper so I don't know if this really is good cable my application. Opinions, anyone?

Thanks for the offer on the 12 gauge cable - I'll take you up on that for my sub.

Al

brain_rinse
11-11-2009, 03:07 PM
Guys,

Thanks for the good info, as usual.

Mike,

This is the cable I am thinking of running:

http://www.monstercable.com/productdisplay.asp?pin=1602

Home Depot sells it for $30 for a 100' reel. I think it's designed for home theater use and it doesn't say that it's made of oxygen free copper so I don't know if this really is good cable my application. Opinions, anyone?

Thanks for the offer on the 12 gauge cable - I'll take you up on that for my sub.

Al
There are cheaper options out there with the same quality but you aren't paying for the Monster Cable name, but for $30 I suppose it's not much to worry about. As for the oxygen free, on paper it's slightly better, but makes no difference in real world application.

cab13367
11-11-2009, 03:32 PM
Brian,

I tried that route already. I bought 100' of OFC 16 gauge Hitron brand wire from sonicelectronix for $9 (see link below) and when I got it, I was disappointed in the size of the copper compared to some other 16 gauge wire that I already had. I just happen to have a micrometer so I decided to mic it. It mic'ed out at about 0.045" diameter whereas true 16 gauge is supposed to be 0.051". Not a big deal but I am surprised at how much disparity there is in wire thickness within the same gauge wire by different manufacturers. The copper in the $30 monster cable looks twice as thick by comparison.

I also ordered some of the 12 gauge Hitron wire and it was even worse - mic'ed out at about 0.061" instead of 0.081 like it's supposed to be. I am going to return both wires.

I'll try and take pics of both 16 gauge wires side by side and post it tonght. It's pretty dramatic.

http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_1960_100+ft.+of+OFC+16+Gauge+Speaker+Wire.htm l

Razzman
11-11-2009, 04:01 PM
Oxy free wire has one major benefit in a marine application, you don't worry about oxidation/degradation of the terminus thus a drop in contact over time.

Name brand wire has no real benefit, your just paying more. What you really want is a wire with heavier jacketing to ward off tear throughs around towers and fiberglass. That's why i buy from KnuKoncepts, nice heavy jackets and good wire.

brain_rinse
11-11-2009, 04:16 PM
Brian,

I tried that route already. I bought 100' of OFC 16 gauge Hitron brand wire from sonicelectronix for $9 (see link below) and when I got it, I was disappointed in the size of the copper compared to some other 16 gauge wire that I already had. I just happen to have a micrometer so I decided to mic it. It mic'ed out at about 0.045" diameter whereas true 16 gauge is supposed to be 0.051". Not a big deal but I am surprised at how much disparity there is in wire thickness within the same gauge wire by different manufacturers. The copper in the $30 monster cable looks twice as thick by comparison.

I also ordered some of the 12 gauge Hitron wire and it was even worse - mic'ed out at about 0.061" instead of 0.081 like it's supposed to be. I am going to return both wires.

I'll try and take pics of both 16 gauge wires side by side and post it tonght. It's pretty dramatic.

http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_1960_100+ft.+of+OFC+16+Gauge+Speaker+Wire.htm l

Yeah, unfortunately there is plenty of cheap junk out there too. I buy a lot from monoprice.com and have never had an issue there.

cab13367
11-11-2009, 08:22 PM
Yeah, unfortunately there is plenty of cheap junk out there too. I buy a lot from monoprice.com and have never had an issue there.

I just checked out monoprice and they seem to have good quality (judging from the reviews) at cheap prices. I'm going to order their speaker wire and RCA cables. Thanks for the tip!

kaneboats
11-12-2009, 01:20 PM
I get all my home theater stuff from them. Great deals on adapters, HDMI cables, etc.

sandm
11-12-2009, 05:20 PM
ordering all my boat wiring from knukoncepts. seem to have some good prices, and are one of the few ebay retailers that have a fuseblock with 0gauge input and more than 1 4gauge output.. 8 seems to be the common power wire size.

Razzman
11-12-2009, 05:41 PM
sandm you won't regret ordering from them. I've ordered from them at least four times and it's quality stuff.

cab13367
11-17-2009, 08:52 PM
Yeah, unfortunately there is plenty of cheap junk out there too. I buy a lot from monoprice.com and have never had an issue there.

brain,

I received my order from monoprice today and I am very please with their products and even more so with their prices. I bought 2 spools of 100' 16 gauge OFC speaker wire and they are true to gauge (actually, bigger than gauge - mic'd at 0.061" compared to 0.051" for true 16 AWG) and it only cost $11.22. I also bought a 12' long 3.5mm aux cable for $0.85! It is good quality and Radio Shack sells the same thing for $10. I also bought (3) high quality 6' RCA audio cables for the amp for $2.20 each. Also bought 100, 4" zip ties, the ones with a hole for a screw for 54 cents for 100! I am a customer for life!

Thanks again for the tip.

Al

brain_rinse
11-18-2009, 09:09 AM
brain,

I received my order from monoprice today and I am very please with their products and even more so with their prices. I bought 2 spools of 100' 16 gauge OFC speaker wire and they are true to gauge (actually, bigger than gauge - mic'd at 0.061" compared to 0.051" for true 16 AWG) and it only cost $11.22. I also bought a 12' long 3.5mm aux cable for $0.85! It is good quality and Radio Shack sells the same thing for $10. I also bought (3) high quality 6' RCA audio cables for the amp for $2.20 each. Also bought 100, 4" zip ties, the ones with a hole for a screw for 54 cents for 100! I am a customer for life!

Thanks again for the tip.

Al
Good to hear! That place can save a ton of money on home theater too... HDMI cables get expensive real fast at consumer electronics stores, especially on longer lengths. I'll have to pick up some of those zip ties with my next order - good call!

mmandley
11-18-2009, 10:26 AM
brain,

I received my order from monoprice today and I am very please with their products and even more so with their prices. I bought 2 spools of 100' 16 gauge OFC speaker wire and they are true to gauge (actually, bigger than gauge - mic'd at 0.061" compared to 0.051" for true 16 AWG) and it only cost $11.22. I also bought a 12' long 3.5mm aux cable for $0.85! It is good quality and Radio Shack sells the same thing for $10. I also bought (3) high quality 6' RCA audio cables for the amp for $2.20 each. Also bought 100, 4" zip ties, the ones with a hole for a screw for 54 cents for 100! I am a customer for life!

Thanks again for the tip.

Al
Sweet deal Al. Im going to look at there site now. I am going to redo a lot of the stereo again so im looking for things to upgrade with. I want to move my amps over to the side of the compartment, then move the batteries completely forward, add a different duel battery set up so i don't have to use the switch all the time. I need to find lots of little goodies like you did. Also need to find some new battery cables also im sure.

Brianinpdx
11-19-2009, 01:58 PM
Guys - I can relate to everyone wanting to save a buck when they can but let me give you all some very simple advice:

DONT BUY JUNK WIRE!

Why you ask? Let me tell you... I somewhat cringed when I looked at that 9.00 link because you never really know what your getting in the box. Sure one guy might have good results but the bottom line is its UNPREDICTABLE. Trust me on this.. I've got a lot of experience in the audio industry. Before starting Exile Audio in 2001 I did a 15 year stint at a company called Phoenix Gold. That company specialized in cables. Looking back, its kind of like a bad nightmare because there is so many complicated things when it comes to producing quality cables - speaker / power / low level / hdmi etc. We all have heard terms like OFC, and UL, and copper and silver and gold digilink etc etc... but these are primarily marketing terms. The real score is how well any given company blends the purity of the conductor be it copper or otherwise and finishes it into the jacket. I have personally seen cables coming into the USA market that are copper COLORED aluminum.... guys! guys! guys! Whats up with that!

I wont get into a discernment about sound quality and such... I've never been one of those guys, but please please consider that you spent 30-50K on your boat and probably have 2-5K wrapped up in your stereo - Whats another 100.00 bucks on some good quality beefy cables and peace of mind! I'm not trying to offer a cure for the worlds bad audio... Just offering a little common sense.

When I used to travel the world and train retailers on stereo accessories I would hand sales people a 22 gauge link chain and then pass around a 2 gauge link chain and look at them and say, "hey, both chains work...which one do you want get in a fight with? Which will protect your valuables." It was a pretty good visual. but nowadays I see that some of the more sleazy cable mfgs will even go to the trouble to give you a tiny ass conductor within a huge outer jacket to confuse most people. Again, not a good thing.

My advice is if your going to go to the trouble to re wire (i.e. Mike), use some decent stuff for the longer runs atleast.

Cheers

-Brian
Exile Audio

mmandley
11-19-2009, 02:42 PM
Ie ( Mike ) ?

I'm not going to buy and install cheap gear. I like a bargan as much as the next guy and I realy try to keep top quality in my boat. Sound quality is most important in my boat when it comes to tunes. One of the reasons I'm so interested in Exile is because it's local and I can learn a lot from you guys in person. I realy don't like buying anything from an online dealer unless it's because of price. I beleive you realy get a better deal when it's face to face. Something about a hand shake and knowing I can go find that guy if my gear stinks.

I have a home audio system that took me years yo save and build and it absolutly sounds incrediable. That's how I base all my stereos. I run only large high end cables in the house, all hidden out of sight. That system will shake the walls in my home.

Back to the boat I'll hook up with ya soon Brian and I'm like a spong man, you pour the information out and I'll absorb it all.

sandm
11-19-2009, 03:31 PM
hey brian, how about a hookup on a route 66? you know you have one laying around you dont' need :)

great advice and it amazes me some of the crap for sale out there. one of the main reasons I'm ditching the factory wiring and using new..
I will never forget the display we used to have at circuit city when I worked there comparing monster cable to real cheap cables. anyone that tells you there is no difference can't hear or see. granted, don't need moc, as I think it's stupidly overpriced, but good cable does make/break a system..

Brianinpdx
11-20-2009, 01:28 AM
Mike - Now i wasnt trying to bang on you. I just read that thread and thought oh boy, here we go... Someone is gonna buy junk. haha! It's all good though... I want putting the crosshairs just on you. I think a lot of people fall through the cracks when it comes to figuring out what makes sense in the cable land!

SandM - as for you my friend!!! hehe. I'm going to have to look up some specs on you. Have our paths crossed before? A R66 is a pretty rare bread. Just so happens I have S#001 up in the attic somewhere along side a few other rare breeds. That was the deal back in the day.... your project, your idea and you keep #1. I had a lot of fun projects back then.... Frank-AmpN-stein? Outlaw? Bandit? All great amps. Remember REACTOR? I remember building a suite in las vegas for the unveiling of that monster. A lot of good people put effort into those audio firsts! Agh the good old days :)

Cheers

-Brian
Exile Audio

mmandley
11-20-2009, 09:32 AM
Hey Brian, Naa man i didn't really think you were pointing at me, i try not to take anything personal on the forum, even though some people make digs that hurt a little, but thats only because i really like it here. I try to assume everyone is being jokingly and playing. Hard to tell sometimes with its only words and no expressions.

I know what ya mean about the junk stuff as for amps and other gear. I remember when people where making the knock offs and selling them for big money and all it was is big junk. They would take Kenwood, and make Rockwood, and other knock offs that claimed 1K watts and when you read the finer print it would say 100RMS and 1K peak, with some huge amount of distortion ratio.

Its all good man, i wish i could take a summer and tow my boat to all the places the forums guys are so i could meet them all personally.

sandm
11-20-2009, 10:44 AM
brian-way ot, sorry.. been into car audio since I bought my first deck back in 1984. have had systems from almost every major automaker(lots from old hifonics series 7 stuff). only amp company that has managed to elude my hands have been orion. REALLY wanted a 4100hcca back in the day. maybe someday. I did a lot of research on the r66 and almost bought one back in '98 for my eclipse gst, but ended up a different route(haha)..
I'm a big fan of 80's/90's amps and this boat system I'm building will be the first system in about 10 years that I'm using new stuff in. my truck had ppi art series amps for a while and am currenty running a soundstream rub550-5. had an 805, but decided it was too much power, and owned one 'lil wonder, but never could run across a second one in as good a shape for a pair..
did spend a year in '97 working for circ. city in idaho/utah, but don't remember any soundstream sales classes, so I'm guessing our paths never crossed unless you were in the iasca circuit in the late 80's doing contests..


ok, back ot..

Razzman
11-20-2009, 11:25 AM
If i can remember that far back my first diy deck install was around '74 or so, first gen Pioneer Supertuner cassette! Let's talk old skool! Didn't have amps, huge big bulky EQ's bolted under the dash with like 20 slides were the ticket to boost power! Jensen 6x9's on the rear deck, can you say distortion? :p We didn't care 'cause it was loud. Subs didn't exist so you just played with the EQ until the bass almost ripped the Jensens apart! :p

I had a pair of Orions in my last boat and i loved them, no issues what so ever with them. I didn't want to spend mega bucks on amps this time so I went Kickers. I have to say i was really surprised with them for the money.