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you da man
11-12-2009, 10:46 PM
It's coming down to the wire as to taking my boat in for the ballast upgrade. I've seen/read some doing the 3 Jabsco with 3 intake, read about 1 intake with 3 Tsunami pumps, 3 intakes with 3 Tsunami pumps. Question is on the Tsunami systems using multiple intake pumps, how many drain pumps are you guys using and how? Seems to be pros and cons to each system.

sandm
11-13-2009, 07:13 AM
have to use one per bag. mounted very close to the drain outlet at the bottom/rear of each bag..

moombadaze
11-13-2009, 07:52 AM
If I could redo my system again(currently 4 800gph tsunami fills on the original thru hull) it would be to 3 intakes and 5 1200 gph tsunami for filling-all one inch, and just leave the empty system alone-3 pumps.

tazz3069
11-13-2009, 09:41 AM
I am very happy with my system. I am thinking of adding a new pump for a Bow system. Not sure if I want to do it just yet. I have the 3 1200 Tsunami for the intake and the stock for the empty. You da Man, I would go for it. Now just keep in mind. You can not monitor the bags when emptying or filling. If not being too careful, when emptying, and the bags are completely out of water, the impeller can burn up. Then you have to replace the impeller. With the tsunami pumps, you can monitor the fill and drain. When the bags are full, it overflows out the drain line. The only way to damage this pump is if you suck something up from in the water. Keep us posted when the mod is getting on its way. We will be here to help guide you through it.
Tazz

sandm
11-13-2009, 09:43 AM
aren't there some issues with the 1200gpm and the thread fittings?
I am planning on upgrading in feb. and only want to do it once, and thought I remember that the 1200's were a pita to mess around with..

tazz3069
11-13-2009, 09:54 AM
aren't there some issues with the 1200gpm and the thread fittings?
I am planning on upgrading in feb. and only want to do it once, and thought I remember that the 1200's were a pita to mess around with..

I bought my pumps on EBay. I had asked if they also offered the hose barb fitting for that pump. They did. So I bought three of them. Now with the hose. I purchased 1" hose. I believe the hose barb was 1 1/8" So what I did was place the hose over the stove to heat up. When it was soft enough, I pushed it on the barb and then ran it under cold water. Worked perfect. Now it goes from an 1 1/8" hose barb to a 1" hose barb. Worked perfect. I also trimmed down all the rubber o-rings in the pumps. I tried to eliminate all obstructions.
Tazz

I will look at the piece that goes from the ball valve to the pump. I do not remember what I used. I will get back to you bro.

you da man
11-13-2009, 12:19 PM
Okay, how about this an idea. My boat is a new 08, with the deal I got the dealer to add the GGIII system...the 08 system. For the 09 GGIII system they want me to cover the extra $600 for the Jabsco pumps. Because of the Jabsco burning up, having to monitor them, impeller issues, amp draw, and questionable reliability issues related to cost per pump...I thought of this. Would it be wise for me just to have the dealer install the 08 GGIII system, with single intake pump, the dreaded sprinkler valve system, and using the stock intake? Then I could take the $600 I would have spent on the Jabsco system upgrade and just get 3 Tsunami 800 pumps, remove the sprinkler valve and make a manifold for the 3 pumps, and use the wiring from the solenoids for the sprinkler valves to power the 3 pumps? I wouldn't have to worry about adding/wiring the drain pumps since the 08 GGIII system would already have them installed.

moombadaze
11-13-2009, 12:27 PM
yes you could and it wont cost 600

sandm
11-13-2009, 12:55 PM
since the dealer will be saving the cash if you don't have him install all the stuff you will be turning around and pulling out, why not see if the dealer will install part of the upgraded system and just leave all the wiring or final connections to you?
maybe swap the valves for one extra pump?

tazz3069
11-13-2009, 04:12 PM
Personally, I would have them wire everything up as if it were a stock system that is in all of our boats. Then when it is all done. Take the crappy sprinkler valves out and add your own pumps. Use the solenoid wire for the pump wires. Just need to change out the fuse to 5 amps. All the switches are there, the fuse block, all the wiring, and the drain pumps. He just needs the new pumps and the vented loops for all 3 pumps.

you da man
11-13-2009, 04:45 PM
Personally, I would have them wire everything up as if it were a stock system that is in all of our boats. Then when it is all done. Take the crappy sprinkler valves out and add your own pumps. Use the solenoid wire for the pump wires. Just need to change out the fuse to 5 amps. All the switches are there, the fuse block, all the wiring, and the drain pumps. He just needs the new pumps and the vented loops for all 3 pumps.

Exactly. Just got back from the dealer and they said it's my choice to do either the 08 or 09 GGIII system but the 08 makes more since. I told them about my plan afterwards and they said it makes since and sounds like a better system. They won't go for the idea of doing the whole install with 3Tsunami pumps as that would be "custom" work.

Now, is the manifold for the 3 Tsunami pumps one piece or is it pieced together from various parts from Home Depot/Lowes?

tazz3069
11-13-2009, 08:35 PM
Your going to need three of these
http://moomba.com/msgboard/picture.php?albumid=23&pictureid=1417

You will also need three of this set-up
http://moomba.com/msgboard/picture.php?albumid=23&pictureid=795

you da man
11-13-2009, 08:44 PM
Your going to need three of these
http://moomba.com/msgboard/picture.php?albumid=23&pictureid=1417

You will also need three of this set-up
http://moomba.com/msgboard/picture.php?albumid=23&pictureid=795

I'm only going with one intake, not three, but I will use 3 Tsunami pumps off one manifold.

tazz3069
11-13-2009, 08:53 PM
In that case, make sure the scupper is 1" Mine looked like a 1" scupper. It was not it had a 1" OD with a 3/4" ID. With a 1" hose

Fman
11-14-2009, 12:26 AM
It's coming down to the wire as to taking my boat in for the ballast upgrade. I've seen/read some doing the 3 Jabsco with 3 intake, read about 1 intake with 3 Tsunami pumps, 3 intakes with 3 Tsunami pumps. Question is on the Tsunami systems using multiple intake pumps, how many drain pumps are you guys using and how? Seems to be pros and cons to each system.

Couple things to keep in mind...

400 pound ballast bag = 48 gallons...

JABSCO pumps = 9 GPM (5.3 minute fill for 400 lb bag)
Tsunami 800's = 13.4 GPM (3.58 minute fill for 400 lb bag)
Tsunami 1200's = 20 GPM (2.4 minute fill for 400 lb bag)

You will loose a little GPM due to friction loss and elevation loss, but these are fairly close. If you go with the 1200's you will need more than one intake. Running three 1200 pumps off one intake will not supply 60 GPM. You can achieve about 39 GPM max per intake.

I installed (3) Tsunami 800's with one intake manifold and it works very well. It takes me about 7-8 minutes to fill 1900 lbs of ballast, which is about 30-32 GPM. One thing to keep in mind is you have to mount the pumps very low to the bottom of the bilge area because Tsunami's are aerator pumps and will not self prime so they need to be lower than the draft of the boat.

Just some food for thought.... good luck with your project.

tazz3069
11-14-2009, 01:19 AM
Fman
my 3 1200 tsunami fill a 400lb bag in 7 min+ I do have 3 intakes. I thought that it will be a faster fill. It looks like the single 1" scupper will do the same job. I just though that to pull that much water to fill all 3 sacks just might not work. I stand corrected.

you da man
11-14-2009, 05:53 AM
Couple things to keep in mind...

400 pound ballast bag = 48 gallons...

JABSCO pumps = 9 GPM (5.3 minute fill for 400 lb bag)
Tsunami 800's = 13.4 GPM (3.58 minute fill for 400 lb bag)
Tsunami 1200's = 20 GPM (2.4 minute fill for 400 lb bag)

You will loose a little GPM due to friction loss and elevation loss, but these are fairly close. If you go with the 1200's you will need more than one intake. Running three 1200 pumps off one intake will not supply 60 GPM. You can achieve about 39 GPM max per intake.

I installed (3) Tsunami 800's with one intake manifold and it works very well. It takes me about 7-8 minutes to fill 1900 lbs of ballast, which is about 30-32 GPM. One thing to keep in mind is you have to mount the pumps very low to the bottom of the bilge area because Tsunami's are aerator pumps and will not self prime so they need to be lower than the draft of the boat.

Just some food for thought.... good luck with your project.

I had the 800's in mind when thinking out the ballast upgrade from stock one intake pump to three. Also, I'm getting the 750lb sacs on both sides so looks like it will take a little while to fill. I have to drive a few miles to my favorite spot on the lake and was wondering if i left the scupper on the intake of course the pumps won't hold back the water from being forced in. However, if your goal is to fill as fast as possible and can do it while under power...why not. Once the bags are at desired capacity, couldn't you just shut off the ball valve to keep unwanted water from being forced in by the scupper? I mean, sounds like a little bit of a hassle to get up and shut the valve off a few times per day but it only takes a handful of seconds to do and you can fill while underway instead of just sitting.

tazz3069
11-14-2009, 11:31 AM
That what the vented loops do. With these installed, you do not have to shut the valves. I had cut the back end off the scupper and kept the screen. This way, it will kept debris out of the pump. Here is a picture of the scupper.

http://moomba.com/msgboard/picture.php?albumid=23&pictureid=1725

Before I did the cut, the bags would fill while under way. Now that I removed the cups, the system works perfect.

you da man
11-14-2009, 12:41 PM
That what the vented loops do. With these installed, you do not have to shut the valves. I had cut the back end off the scupper and kept the screen. This way, it will kept debris out of the pump. Here is a picture of the scupper.

http://moomba.com/msgboard/picture.php?albumid=23&pictureid=1725

Before I did the cut, the bags would fill while under way. Now that I removed the cups, the system works perfect.

But I was trying to figure out a way to fill while underway and leaving the scupper as is on the stock intake. I know the vented loops prevent the filling while underway but that's IF you grind the scupper off. Instead of using vented loops can't I just shut off the ball valve once my sacs are at the desired level?

tazz3069
11-14-2009, 01:01 PM
Of course you can. I was just think of an esier way to fill and shut off with removing seats, ice chest and people just to get to the valves. I thought of that as well and I did do that first. For me, it was a PIA. Thats why I opted for the vented loops. But yes, by shutting the valves will work ass well.

DOCDRS
11-14-2009, 04:15 PM
"JABSCO pumps = 9 GPM (5.3 minute fill for 400 lb bag)"

When I had my stock rear bags in (450 lbs) it was a 4 minute fill time.

3 minutes for the front 300 lb bag

ED i think i read you upgraded your jabsco impellers to a green one from the yellow.......what was the $ difference, I have the same setup and am thinking of getting a couple of spares . best price i could find was ~27 for the yellow ones.....

tazz3069
11-16-2009, 09:31 AM
Ed
How do you know when the bags are full? Is your system on a timer? Does the water drain out the side of the boat or does it drain from the same place were it draws water from? I thought that I was reading that the new Moomba's, with the Jabsco pumps, are on a timer. They pumps shut off after a certain period of time. Is that true? I know with the new dash that is coming out, there is a gauge on how much water is in the bags. Not sure how accurate that will be since there is not a float in the bag to measure the water. If it is on a timer, can the timer be adjusted oif you put in bigger bags?

sandm
11-16-2009, 10:43 AM
ed-correct me if I'm wrong but it's a timer system. mastercraft has been doing the same thing in the x-2's and I remember a lot of debate on how to change the timing. need to set the timers based on bigger bags, which I would assume ed has since he's running the larger rear setup. bags drain out the same place they enter from, since there's only one pump per bag.
I am real curious how the dash monitors bag filling as well. easy in hard tanks. maybe something that measures the amount of water past a point? I would think there's too many variables in filling based on timing a bag full?

our dealer doesn't have a new supra yet. been watching.

DOCDRS
11-16-2009, 01:37 PM
I have the g III jabsco and the timers are easily adjusted, you just have to hit the switch again for another 30 secs of run time, the only true way to know when the bag is full is when water starts coming out the vent hose, pretty easy, imo. i know everyone is hung up on getting there bags filled in under 3 mins, it usu takes a good 5- 10 mins to get the motor warmed up properly and time to get suited up ready to go.....never really had an issue with over twiddling of my thumbs waiting for the bags to fill.....i guess if it took 20 mins to fill then we'd be really have an issue

sandm
11-16-2009, 03:45 PM
didn't realize they have a vent hose. good feature for figuring out if they are full. can't you set the timers for a little longer so you don't have to hit it again, then if you lose a little, oh well?

it takes the factory system I have currently around 15-18 minutes to fill the 750 in the rear locker. sucks.

DOCDRS
11-16-2009, 04:34 PM
didn't realize they have a vent hose. good feature for figuring out if they are full. can't you set the timers for a little longer so you don't have to hit it again, then if you lose a little, oh well?

it takes the factory system I have currently around 15-18 minutes to fill the 750 in the rear locker. sucks.
yes you can reprogram the run time on the switches and pressing the switch again gives you an additional minute of run time

DOCDRS
11-17-2009, 12:09 AM
Ed , do you have a ride for me if i come down there next week? what happened to your status? your a junior member again?

DOCDRS
11-17-2009, 10:50 AM
Thats awesome, never could get into running myself. I have next week off, and my wife was asking me what i thought about going down to florida for a few days.....so it would be like between the 22 and 27 if we go, its last minute thing so no worries, when she mentioned it i mapquested clermont and saw how close you are to Orlando. Hey whats the weather like down there suppose to be?

kaneboats
11-17-2009, 11:22 AM
Warm and sunny. Except for about 12 days a year.

DOCDRS
11-17-2009, 07:28 PM
Doc, when are you coming down and how long are you staying?

I'm running The Space Coast Marathon on Sunday Nov 29th.

I won't be doing any boating that weekend, but will be out again on Saturday December, 5.

I deleted more posts. I no longer wish to appear to be a post whore...although I am.

e

I'd never think that of you Ed you've been a member for a long time and one would expect that of a 7 yr member. Now if you were posting 5 x a day on average then there may be some concern....... :)

jk d:)

Fman
01-24-2010, 01:27 AM
Fman
my 3 1200 tsunami fill a 400lb bag in 7 min+ I do have 3 intakes. I thought that it will be a faster fill. It looks like the single 1" scupper will do the same job. I just though that to pull that much water to fill all 3 sacks just might not work. I stand corrected.

400 lbs is about 48 gallons of water. Are you talking about (3) 400 lb bags? Because a 1200 Tsunami is rated for 20 GPM, which would would fill a 400 lb bag in about 2.5 minutes. I believe you did the right thing by having a seperate intake for each pump. You can only get about 38-40GPM max out of one 3/4"-1" scupper.

I am currently using (3) 800's off of one manifold and one intake. I can fill 1900 lbs in about 9 minutes. I was considering trying the 1200's to speed this up, was not sure if the 1200's are actually producing 20 GPM fill times. I am getting about 25-28 GPM with three 800 Tsunamis, not too bad but would be nice to get a little more flow with the 1200's. 1900 lbs of water is about 228 gallons of water.

I dont know why Atwood did not make the 1200 more user friendly with standard NPT 1" or 3/4" thread. From what people are saying its a pain to adapt the 1200's to 3/4" NPT.

Did you have any problems?

jasonwm
01-28-2010, 06:41 PM
There's some good info in this thread, but also some inaccuracies.

Just to clear this up for anyone one else that stumbles upon this thread, please do not use a scupper intake for your ballast system. There is essentially no benefit to using a scoop type intake, and if you use aerator pumps you will be forced to include some type of ball valve (manual or electronic) to prevent the flow of water into the bags when running at speed.

Impeller (Jabsco Ballast Puppy or Johnson Ultra Ballast) and Aerator (Rule, Attwood, etc.) pumps both have their advantages and disadvantages, the key is to design a system correctly for the type of pump that you'll be using. If you do that, then the functionality and speed will be perfectly acceptable.

A good example of this is the MLS system in Malibus and the new Gravity system in Supra/Moomba. Malibu uses aerator pumps while United Marine uses impeller pumps, but at the end of the day, both systems work very well and are quick to fill and drain.