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View Full Version : Some one want to explain this to me?



Sled491
12-14-2009, 09:36 PM
OK I know I'm a Northener, even from Canada to boot, but how did this happen so fast.

We have a house on an Island with no bridge, most know that. I was the first person to do this in over 50 yrs on our island. In fact I have the only real house, the rest are very small cabins.

So when the next guy came along that wanted a house built on the island I was the logical choice to talk to. As this is what we do for a living it was win win for me, I get another contract, and it is at my favorite place in the world.

So this year we are working along building this guys house, shuttleing crews back and forth etc, etc. Then last week wednesday we get a giant snow storm, about 10" of snow in one day. Still the lake is wide open. the very next day the lake has 1" of ice on it. I manage to sink one of our small boats, and the barge shifter is frozen and I am controling the throttle and shifter with the cowl off and by hand (not really fun). The next day there is 3" of ice and I have call it quits, and we spend a whole day breaking the barge free to pull it out and onto the trailer and off to the compound.

Today not even 5 days later, I drove my four wheeler across the channel no probs! What the hey, isn't this supposed to happen a little slower? Heck I was still water skiing Nov 9th!

Please don't call me slow, just explain to me this whole "Global Warming" thing again, just so I get it :(

BensonWdby
12-15-2009, 08:28 AM
I have actually seen a lake freeze. The process is called 'turning over'. tTe surface water gets to a certain low temperature and then sinks - allowing the warmer water below to come to the top. After enough cycles that water below is nearly at freezing point. When it's turn in the cycle brings it to the top it gets the nudge to freeze, ice starts forming very quickly. I have seen a small lake go from 4 inch waves to collecting snow in under two hours.

Regarding Global Warming. I did research in 1968 that explained how solar cycles of sunspots and flares occurs every 11 years and that has an impact on the advance/retreat of glaciers. I think it is dangerous to take individual points in time and use them as examples to prove/disprove what is happening. I have not studied any of the evidence. However I tend to think in terms of limits.

Lower limit - If there were no people at all on the planet would we still be seeing the impacts we see today?

Upper limit - If everything on the land that was man made was set on fire at once (including people), would we see an impact on global weather?

Well right now we fit inside those limits somewhere. The closer to the lower limit the better is my guess. But if the limit concept is reasonable, then we are not in disagreement about whether humans can impact global climate, but more on just exactly where we are on the curve.

What kills me is that people are so polarized about this. I think changes in glacial ice packs, including the poles and Greenland, indicate we are seeing some kind of change. If it is really happening, what it means to me is that the global average temperature is increasing. Climate shifting is certainly a way to get there, but that could mean that our lowest cold temps get warmer, that we spread out the cold over more days so the lowest lows do not have to be so low, etc...

I remember less than 30 years ago on Thanksgiving I was always snow skiing and shoveling the lake for an ice rink. This year my skiing buddy was water skiing the day after Thanksgiving.

The real question I guess is whether we can actually influence things now? Geographic changes happen on a very large scale with respect to time. And secondly - I guess - Even if the alarmists are wrong - what can it hurt to try to take control over our negative impacts on the earth? It is not about being right or wrong - just about doing our best to make our home the most livable.

kaneboats
12-15-2009, 10:45 AM
"Even if the alarmists are wrong - what can it hurt to try to take control over our negative impacts on the earth? It is not about being right or wrong - just about doing our best to make our home the most livable."

OK, turn in your Moomba and stop burning fossil fuels. This is a ridiculous suggestion but the difficulty is not in trying to do better it is in trying to do the right things the right ways. I know that forcing ethanol on boat owners isn't one of them and I'm not going to walk to work. Trusting politicians to pick the battles is what worries me.

moombadaze
12-15-2009, 12:44 PM
[quote=kaneboats;81360Trusting politicians to pick the battles is what worries me.[/quote]


Well said.

BensonWdby
12-15-2009, 08:12 PM
The trick is to get everyone else to turn in their keys.... Then I would have the lake to myself...

I am not suggesting that we stop living. But we carpool when we can. Only drive the truck in bad weather and to pull the boat. We keep our home at 68 in winter and 78 in summer.

I think that if everyone made some personal efforts it could help. But cow farts - well that's another story. And industrial carbon output ....

It is unfortunate when a potentially real issue gets muddled by politics and big business.

Honestly - I think the planet will self regulate. By that I mean - as the population groes out of control, we are going to see a lot more issues besides warming. I think the planet can only realistically support a certain maximum number of people (again a limit) - when we hit that - well..

Anyhow - the world is going to end in 2012 so nothing we do now will really have an impact.

Merry Christmas.

Sled491
12-15-2009, 09:42 PM
Wow, I didn't really want this to be political or about global warming. I was just saying how fast things happened this year easpecially after such an unseasonably warm fall, which of course followed a relatively cool summer.

But to add to the conversation, as was said, looking at a point in time relative to a human life compared to a point in time or even a gradual shift in trends when looking at earths life is beyond us. Should we act responsible yes, what does that really mean? I'm sure none of us really know, and as such we prove our true arogance as a human race by trying to inflict our opinions however derived on others of our race.

BensonWdby
12-15-2009, 11:55 PM
Did not mean to hijack your thread ... I am certainly not looking for a political outlet.

Speaking of unseasonably warm. We had snow in the middle of October while we were taking out the dock. And then November totally warm - wishing I had the boat out - and now this. I had to walk about today and the west wind was almost painful. I am guessing -20 F wind chill.

Sled491
12-16-2009, 01:28 PM
Dave, I wasn't busting your b#@%%& or anything like that just making a small joke. Looks like cold is finally breaking here, whew!

sandm
12-16-2009, 02:36 PM
our general office is in green bay. nuts the weather that has been blowing thru wisconsin..
hope that means a better water year if you have issues with that..

our ski hill locally is finally opening on thursday after getting 16 inches on tuesday. nice to see. it's all gone down here in the valley from the rain.
need 10 more feet in the hills for the reservoirs to fill in the spring and have a decent water year..

come on snow.....

Sled491
12-16-2009, 09:27 PM
Heck some ski hills have been open weeks here. The hill closest to me opened about 1 1/2 weeks ago(Alpine Valley, famous because this is where Steve Ray Vaughn was killed in Helicopter crash while touring with Eric Clapton in 1990) .

kaneboats
12-17-2009, 09:37 AM
Yup, remember that well. I had seen Stevie Ray the year before in downstate IL. I think the last time visited Alpine Valley was to see the The Who in about '89.

Sled491
12-17-2009, 08:10 PM
"Who"?

Just kidding :D

kaneboats
12-21-2009, 02:38 PM
Please don't start that bit.

Sled491
12-21-2009, 03:08 PM
Hey a bit is a bit, and these days every one needs some levity :)

kaneboats
12-21-2009, 11:49 PM
I know. I'm so bored I talked my brother into buying a little dirtbike for his daughter. So we sit around and have a beer and watch kids ride. I'm so bored I cleaned the laundry room the other day. I fixed a broken plastic shelf in the fridge. I wiped the hard drive on the kids computer and reinstalled windows so it works right. I even used some epoxy to fix some broken Christmas ornaments. Do you think any of this stuff happens in the middle of the summer?

Sled491
12-22-2009, 07:46 AM
Oh it happens alright we just choose to ignore them. My deck at my main house has been sitting unfinished for 4 years! But it's covered in snow, so not getting done now. Maybe come summer....but I doubt it :)