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moombadaze
12-24-2009, 08:12 PM
Started with a little bench testing the factory system
http://i527.photobucket.com/albums/cc351/moombadaze/DSC00867.jpg
http://i527.photobucket.com/albums/cc351/moombadaze/DSC00868.jpg
http://i527.photobucket.com/albums/cc351/moombadaze/DSC00869.jpg

this system put out about 6.6 gpm or would take about 7.5 minutes to fill a 400lb bag up, or about 15 minutes to fill a 750lb bag.

then there is another 400 lb bag waiting to be filled so what is that like a half hour to fill everything up.

I just dont have the patience for this

moombadaze
12-24-2009, 08:21 PM
next up using the factory pump with 1" hose and no valves
http://i527.photobucket.com/albums/cc351/moombadaze/DSC00872.jpg
my garden hose could not keep up with it so i had to fill up a big bag and use that as my lake. this was running at about 19.3 gpm or would take just under 3 minutes to fill a 400lb bag up. and figure it would take just under 5 minutes to fill a 750lb bag.

next up -using 2 800 gph tsunami pups tee'ing off a single intake--this is using all 3/4" hose.
http://i527.photobucket.com/albums/cc351/moombadaze/DSC00870.jpg
Edit: this is putting out about 15gpm for both filling into the same bag--figure each pump at about 7.5gpm

final test
http://i527.photobucket.com/albums/cc351/moombadaze/DSC00881.jpg
http://i527.photobucket.com/albums/cc351/moombadaze/DSC00878.jpg

this is 2 800gph tsunamis fill into one 1" hose, this was running about 12.5 gpm or would take about 3.3 minutes to fill the 400lb bag.

moombadaze
12-24-2009, 08:26 PM
now some trial fitting
http://i527.photobucket.com/albums/cc351/moombadaze/DSC00877.jpg
factory pump inplace and seeing how a new intake with 2 pumps fit on the drivers side of the vdrive
http://i527.photobucket.com/albums/cc351/moombadaze/DSC00876.jpg

seeing how the other pumps will fit on the other side of the v drive
http://i527.photobucket.com/albums/cc351/moombadaze/DSC00874.jpg

moombadaze
12-24-2009, 08:29 PM
hole for new intake on the drivers side
http://i527.photobucket.com/albums/cc351/moombadaze/DSC00882.jpg

hole for new intake on the passenger side
http://i527.photobucket.com/albums/cc351/moombadaze/DSC00883.jpg

sticking the thru hull in to see how it fits
http://i527.photobucket.com/albums/cc351/moombadaze/DSC00884.jpg
much easier to stick in from inside the boat for this trial fit--this is what the under side of the thru hull looks like

moombadaze
12-24-2009, 08:33 PM
drivers side thru hull coming up and in
http://i527.photobucket.com/albums/cc351/moombadaze/DSC00886.jpg
just have to put the nut on and let it sit for a couple weeks and let the sealant dry

passenger side thru hull coming up and in
http://i527.photobucket.com/albums/cc351/moombadaze/DSC00885.jpg



more pictures to come....

moombadaze
12-24-2009, 08:41 PM
how this is all working,

The original factory rule pump is filling my surf bag 750 lb.

2 of the tsunami pumps will be filling the front locker bag and the bag under the passenger seat where the cooler used to be.

the other 2 tsunami pumps that are going into a single hose will also be used for filling the surf bag thru the vent port-these are on a seperate switch and the hose will have a quick disconnect if the bag needs burbing.

hope it all works.

Ian Brantford
12-24-2009, 09:49 PM
Whaa! This is great documentation! Thanks for taking the time to post it.

I am surprised to see that the two pumps going into 1" hose went faster than the two 3/4" hoses. I would have assumed that putting two outputs into one would have created some backpressure or turbulence to make it sub-optimal. Say, did you think to do the 2nd-last experiment with two 1" hoses instead of 3/4"?

you da man
12-25-2009, 04:40 AM
What intakes are you using thru the hull and are they 3/4" or 1" inside diameter? Is the factory intake 1" inside diameter? Reason I ask is that you mentioned factory pump with 1" diameter hose...wasn't sure if you were referring to inside or outside diameter.

moombadaze
12-25-2009, 09:08 AM
I am surprised to see that the two pumps going into 1" hose went faster than the two 3/4" hoses. I would have assumed that putting two outputs into one would have created some backpressure or turbulence to make it sub-optimal. Say, did you think to do the 2nd-last experiment with two 1" hoses instead of 3/4"?

Ian you were correct about the flow-I made a edit to it. I was just using all the hose that I had-didnt want to go out and buy more.

I may do away with the 2 pumps into the one hose, but since i had them figured i would give it a try-once i can do a actuall lake test i may give a try with just one pump and one hose-it will be very easy to try

moombadaze
12-25-2009, 09:12 AM
What intakes are you using thru the hull and are they 3/4" or 1" inside diameter? Is the factory intake 1" inside diameter? Reason I ask is that you mentioned factory pump with 1" diameter hose...wasn't sure if you were referring to inside or outside diameter.


Using all 3/4 " inside diameter thru hulls-much easier for the pumps to screw into it that way. Using 1" would require adapters for all the pump intakes.

The factory pump uses a 3/4" inside thru hull and then the output hose is 1" inside diameter. -strange, but again i am just reusing as much as possible and try and shorten the fill time.

sandm
12-25-2009, 10:26 AM
nice info. keep us posted..

superfet
12-29-2009, 06:04 AM
Great pictures and info! I want to upgrade my system also.

jasonwm
01-28-2010, 05:44 PM
Good info, keep us posted on the install progress.

moombadaze
01-28-2010, 07:16 PM
Its all installed, wired up and ready to try out. Just waiting on weather and free day. Still have one mod-have to cut off the backside of the factory scupper.

kaneboats
01-28-2010, 11:50 PM
Please, please, please make a list of parts and some notes. You have it down now.

DOCDRS
01-29-2010, 12:00 AM
Started with a little bench testing the factory system
http://i527.photobucket.com/albums/cc351/moombadaze/DSC00867.jpg
http://i527.photobucket.com/albums/cc351/moombadaze/DSC00868.jpg
http://i527.photobucket.com/albums/cc351/moombadaze/DSC00869.jpg

this system put out about 6.6 gpm or would take about 7.5 minutes to fill a 400lb bag up, or about 15 minutes to fill a 750lb bag.

then there is another 400 lb bag waiting to be filled so what is that like a half hour to fill everything up.

I just dont have the patience for this

You have inspired me . i have the new gIII jabsco Ballast and have thought up a way to bump up the fill rate on this system for minimal $, but it will have to wait till april or may.......details to come

moombadaze
01-29-2010, 07:11 AM
Please, please, please make a list of parts and some notes. You have it down now.


After all that i have done i know what i would do different:rolleyes:

But I do have a list.

brain_rinse
01-29-2010, 08:49 AM
Daze, what would you do if you could start over?

moombadaze
01-29-2010, 09:47 AM
Brain, I would get 3 more of the factory rule pumps, have 4 1" thru hulls, 1" tube for all the fills. That rule pump moves alot of water.

brain_rinse
01-29-2010, 10:08 AM
Brain, I would get 3 more of the factory rule pumps, have 4 1" thru hulls, 1" tube for all the fills. That rule pump moves alot of water. Interesting! What are the factory Rule pumps rated at? I would have expected the Tsunami 800s to outperform them. With a 1" thru-hulls and 1" fill lines you'd have to use adapters for the pumps, correct? Would you keep your modded factory scupper or replace it with something else? Thanks for the info!

DOCDRS
01-29-2010, 10:12 AM
Daze did you have the rule pump sucking thru a 3/4 or 1" supply?

moombadaze
01-29-2010, 10:17 AM
Factory pump is 2000gph. would replace the scuppers with plain thru hulls. the rule pumps outlet is 1", but strangly they have 3/4" inlets--go figure.

The factory scupper is a stange piece--it has both 3/4" threads and 1" threads-would have to trim the length down to get to the 1" but the inside diam is 3/4" all the way-like i said a strange piece.

Rule also makes a pump that is 3400 gph--that would be a animal of a fill pump but theres no fittings that would work for the ballast bags

moombadaze
01-29-2010, 10:18 AM
Daze did you have the rule pump sucking thru a 3/4 or 1" supply?

right now i have the factory piece still.

DOCDRS
01-29-2010, 10:20 AM
Do you think having 3 intakes is better than 1 as in fmans....... he states a 3/4 is good for 40 gpm......maybe in a perfect world......when 3 pumps are sucking you are going to get fighting between them i would think.....and i think that 40 is at a higher pressure than these pumps are capable of.......just some thoughts

DOCDRS
01-29-2010, 10:21 AM
I meant when you did your bench test

DOCDRS
01-29-2010, 10:25 AM
anyways with my jabsco system , i'm going to put a tsunami on the intake of my surf side and see what the fill rate difference is , with it and with out it....only 30 for the pump and some time and wire....but have to wait till may

moombadaze
03-09-2010, 03:21 PM
Do you think having 3 intakes is better than 1 as in fmans....... he states a 3/4 is good for 40 gpm......maybe in a perfect world......when 3 pumps are sucking you are going to get fighting between them i would think.....and i think that 40 is at a higher pressure than these pumps are capable of.......just some thoughts


Doc-I had this same setup except I was running 4 800tsunamis-wasnt happy with, bit it was great improvement over the sprinkler valves.

moombadaze
03-09-2010, 03:29 PM
ok, got to the lake this last sunday -on the water for the 1st time in about 4 months- and my surfbag 750lb was filled in about 3 minutes- now this was using the clock on the phone as i forgot my watch, but anyway it was noticable faster than any system ive had in the past. Had one little water leak on one of my fittings-forgot the tape on it.

No vented loops being used, running inline oneway valves that open with very little presure and close tight-so water wont siphon back out:D.

Still have to cut off the cap on the factory scupper so its more of a thru hull and then should be completely done.

Need to get out a couple more times and actually time it and use it before i will call it a success.

Remember I was trying to reuse as many old parts as possible and not pay out much more money-so far so good.

Kaneboats--got some ideas for you:D. send me a photo of one of your xtra rule pumps you have-sinclair project maybe.

moombadaze
03-09-2010, 03:43 PM
Big thanks to Tazz3069 for all the support, guidence, ideas and answering all my questions via pm's

newty
03-09-2010, 08:37 PM
Wow this kinda got me thinking. I have 3 Rule pumps now. This would be pretty easy to do except I would need to go up to 1" hose throughout. (on the fill side anyway). I think I would just enlarge the existing through hull to a 1.25" and build a manifold, provided there was enough room. May be a little tight under there.
Daze the valves you are talking about are they spring checks? Post a pic or a link to what your using. I'd rather not use the vented loops if at all possible.

You guys remember the spring removal idea on the valves I had last year? I still have them removed for my back locker valves. As long as I keep life vests or a surfboard on them they don't fill underway, however I had to reinstall the spring for the front locker sac because it would fill. After reading about some of the improvements here I thought, why don't you remove the springs and grind off the scupper. That would make all the difference as far as siphoning.
Increased flow and no siphoning and best of all free!
I'll try it out befor I change out the system and let you know how it works.
Don't hold your breath, its going to be a month or two.;)

you da man
03-09-2010, 10:05 PM
ok, got to the lake this last sunday -on the water for the 1st time in about 4 months- and my surfbag 750lb was filled in about 3 minutes- now this was using the clock on the phone as i forgot my watch, but anyway it was noticable faster than any system ive had in the past. Had one little water leak on one of my fittings-forgot the tape on it.

No vented loops being used, running inline oneway valves that open with very little presure and close tight-so water wont siphon back out:D.

Still have to cut off the cap on the factory scupper so its more of a thru hull and then should be completely done.

Need to get out a couple more times and actually time it and use it before i will call it a success.

Remember I was trying to reuse as many old parts as possible and not pay out much more money-so far so good.

Kaneboats--got some ideas for you:D. send me a photo of one of your xtra rule pumps you have-sinclair project maybe.

You going to do a write up on your system Daze?

kaneboats
03-09-2010, 11:20 PM
Kaneboats--got some ideas for you:D. send me a photo of one of your xtra rule pumps you have-sinclair project maybe.

Here's a pic of what my pumps look like (they are supposed to be Rule 2000's):

moombadaze
03-10-2010, 07:27 AM
Here's a pic of what my pumps look like (they are supposed to be Rule 2000's):


yep, those look correct

kaneboats
03-10-2010, 08:13 AM
I guess the question is, right now, if you had the unmodded system and 2 Rule pumps sitting around, what would you do first? Assume I'll be adding a 750 on the surf side only right away-- but not messing with the cooler at this time.

I would think something along the lines of adding 1 new thru hull and a pump dedicated to just the surf bag for starters and upgrading the line to the surf bag. ? ? ? (May have to stop by and hit you up for that beer after all -- on second thought, let me buy!)

moombadaze
03-10-2010, 08:28 AM
I think 1st we need to see how much room you have next to the trans/v-drive for adding pumps, I think yours has a water strainer so that may change things a little. But yes I would add one thru hull just for filling that surf bag. I remember when I got my bag and just using the factory system took over 30minutes to fill everything.

The beer offer stands anytime-the pool fridge allways has some in it. Swing by with the boat tonight and we can check it out. The offer to spend the night is open and then you can get home tomorrow morning before your meeting.

kaneboats
03-10-2010, 08:33 AM
Thanks for the kind offer again. I just can't do it. I took the afternoon off today so I could run down there but I have to head back tonight. Too much going on at work right now. What I should do is head down for prop test weekend on Fri night-- hang out on a Sat. and then go to Clermont on Sun. or something like that. Needs to be a Sat you're off though. Hard to schedule stuff, isn't it?

moombadaze
03-10-2010, 08:37 AM
Thanks for the kind offer again. I just can't do it. I took the afternoon off today so I could run down there but I have to head back tonight. Too much going on at work right now. What I should do is head down for prop test weekend on Fri night-- hang out on a Sat. and then go to Clermont on Sun. or something like that. Needs to be a Sat you're off though. Hard to schedule stuff, isn't it?


Very hard to dang near impossible, except we just hired another person so I might be able to get a saturday off. If you and the family can come down let me know and Ill tell them I wont be in that saturday.

moombadaze
03-10-2010, 08:38 AM
Hey remember your towing precious cargo home-be carefull

cbboarder
03-10-2010, 08:58 AM
Okay here's a new guy question. Since we haven't had our new boat in the water yet, is the Gravity III stock system good enough to surf behind? I've surfed in college (FAU, Go Owls!) but not behind a boat. Sorry if this has been addressed before but I couldn't locate it.

kaneboats
03-10-2010, 09:03 AM
You have an OBV, right? When are you gonna get some pictures up? We want to see that bad boy (girl) before Sinclair in July.

moombadaze
03-10-2010, 09:09 AM
Okay here's a new guy question. Since we haven't had our new boat in the water yet, is the Gravity III stock system good enough to surf behind? I've surfed in college (FAU, Go Owls!) but not behind a boat. Sorry if this has been addressed before but I couldn't locate it.

Yes you can surf it with the stock ballast-only fill one rear, but its much more fun with a larger wave, Get a flyhigh 750lb ballast bag as its a direct replacement.

cbboarder
03-10-2010, 09:15 AM
Yes! The pics will come once we have it in the water. The lift is being installed this month and the recommendation is to hold off until the 2nd week of April before dropping the boat. I'm sooo ready for the summer. We're heading up this weekend to start clearing rocks and debris from around the dock. Since Nottely is a TVA lake they draw it down every winter.

So back to my question, will the stock Gravity III be adequate?

newty
03-10-2010, 10:27 AM
Kane I currently have 2 rule pumps running in my boat. I took out the stock 4 inlet monifold out and added a 5 inlet manifold. I have two water inlets, one from each pump and 3 out to the valves. I had to remove the strainer to make it work. I pulled the springs on the rear solenoids and that really helps speed up fill times. As I mentioned earlier if you ground down the scupper and pulled all the springs you probably won't have any flow-by issues.
Also 3/4" inlet will work for two rules for a short run. As long as you "T" right at the scupper you will be fine flow wise. Check out mine.
This system takes me about 15min to fill 1200lbs on the surf side and 1000lbs in the bow, filling at the same time.


http://moomba.com/msgboard/picture.php?albumid=125&pictureid=977
http://moomba.com/msgboard/picture.php?albumid=125&pictureid=978
http://moomba.com/msgboard/picture.php?albumid=125&pictureid=979

brain_rinse
03-10-2010, 10:52 AM
Shameless plug: I have my factory Rule pump listed in the classifieds if anyone wants to follow in Newty's footsteps! I could probably be convinced to throw the ball valve in for free is well. :)

jmvotto
03-10-2010, 11:15 AM
Cpboarder,

Yes you should be able to see with the stock ballast. I have th gI and have two 400lbs in the rear i manually fill with a tsunami pump. This wave is with the front full, 1 400 lb bag and 1/2 ot the other 400lb bag on top total 600lbs

http://moomba.com/msgboard/picture.php?albumid=17&pictureid=1836

check out the other pics in my profile or search the thread can your surf an OBV.

The 750 bag is a little big for the obv 06 to 08 rear comaprtments.

jmvotto
03-10-2010, 11:18 AM
Newty do you have the dual pumps wired together, did you have to change out the fuse or anything. Will this fit in an OBV 07 or older lsv model, In your humble opinion.:D

newty
03-10-2010, 01:05 PM
Yea just jumpered the wires together and they both run w/ no issues. I ran it all last summer w/ no issues.
As far as fitting in an OBV if you have the factory GIII system then it should fit.
All I did was turn the left rear solenoid forward on the extra port and put the second rule inlet where the solenoid used to sit.
FYI home de-pot has those manifolds in the irrigation section. It wasn't grey to match the original but green did the job.;)

In my humble opinion.:D

newty
03-10-2010, 01:12 PM
But you will eventually want the larger sacs.


Holy Crap Ed, I cant believe you said that? lol

newty
03-10-2010, 03:02 PM
I know :) thats just not your usual answer to surfing. All in good fun. ;)

jmvotto
03-10-2010, 03:09 PM
Newty,

Thanks, i am uprgrading from GI to GIII and saw all these misc parts on the board. I will hook it up stock stuff and see how i like it, compared to the manual side of things.

thx

you boys and your sacs :p" sounds like my former Congressman on TV last night"

newty
03-10-2010, 04:31 PM
No Problem!

kaneboats
03-11-2010, 12:54 AM
I'm trying to plan upgrades so I end up where I'm going to end up but get there without backtracking (I'm either lazy or efficient -- haven't figured out which yet).

Ultimately, I expect to have a setup a lot like Daze. In the meantime I want to immediately upgrade the surf side bag to a 750. My thinking is I can dedicate one of my spare Rule pumps and a new through hull to that bag. I don't see why I would have to change that later, but, even if I did it wouldnt' make a big difference.

I guess I want an overall plan and then break it down into stages so I can get stage one done in the next two weeks or so. The rest to follow as I feel more ambitious.

moombadaze
03-11-2010, 07:54 AM
1) think maybe trying the dual pump into the manifold could be the way to go for right now-like Newty has done. Would be a very small outlay of cash. Tee fitting and about 2 feet of 1"id hose

2) add the second pump and hose it directly to the surf bag. Will need about 7'id hose and 1"flyhigh quick connectors.

Think option 1 is better for right now myself for this summer

But start buying the 1" quick connectors as they will be needed anyway. Gather up all the stuff needed over the summer slowly and then this winter make the final mods and be done.

lazy is usually efficient-I think

mmandley
03-11-2010, 08:41 AM
I always see Lazy as pre=planning each step in my mind, calculating the possible mistakes and back up plans.

Thats what i always tell Claudia when she tells me to stop being lazy and get something done LOL.

kaneboats
03-11-2010, 10:08 AM
FYI home de-pot has those manifolds in the irrigation section. It wasn't grey to match the original but green did the job.

This is the part I have been looking for for about an hour. I think this will work great for me if it all fits in there. I can just put in a tee and add the extra Rule pump. It should just about double the water available at the manifold. If I'm staying stock for now and just adding the 750 bag my fill times should be PDQ.

Daze, what bag did you use under the seat where the cooler was? Was it your left over 400 from the rear or did you use something else? If it's something else, where did you put the extra 400?

moombadaze
03-11-2010, 11:13 AM
Daze, what bag did you use under the seat where the cooler was? Was it your left over 400 from the rear or did you use something else? If it's something else, where did you put the extra 400?

400LB bag was one of the left over factory bags, the other one i put in the walk thru.

kaneboats
03-13-2010, 12:09 AM
I was sitting around tonight (in the boat, of course, with the radio on) and decided to take some pix of the space. I had to pull the boat out a foot to clear my cabinets just to open the lockers, etc., but I can do it in the garage so I'm happy. Anyway, I think there's easily enough room to add the tee and the second Rule pump. Tomorrow I may just go to the Home Depot to see if they have anything like the manifold Newty found. Here's a pic of the space by the thru-hull and a shot from up front. Should bring back memories for you guys.

mmandley
03-13-2010, 09:06 AM
BOOOOOOOOO You got a water strainer on your main input water line.

Mine didn't come with one of them. Im working on getting one.

moombadaze
03-13-2010, 09:08 AM
boat has not even hit the water and the mods are starting;)

Second pump should fit no problem

mmandley
03-13-2010, 02:49 PM
A boat is a lot like a truck. Its just a Truck untill you customize it. Then its realy Your Truck.

Boat works the same way. Its just a moomba untill you add your touch then its a MOOMBA lol.

jmvotto
03-13-2010, 03:04 PM
Mike, I may have an extra one .

mmandley
03-13-2010, 03:26 PM
Yea realy? Shoot me a Pm =) i want one just havn't realy focused on it with all the other work im doing.

kaneboats
03-14-2010, 01:05 AM
HEY! Don't hijack my mod thread!. Oh, it's not my thread is it? Oh well. Enjoy!

kaneboats
03-16-2010, 02:54 PM
I think I found the part that would replace the manifold and allow a second water inlet (Newty got this at his local HD). Orbit changed the size of all their unions and connections and stuff and my Lowes is carrying the new stuff. According to one seller on ebay the old stuff was actually made by Dura and isn't available anymore from Orbit -- or at least they aren't "making" it anymore. Here's a link to a seller that has it:

http://www.sprinklerwarehouse.com/301-010-3-1-Triple-Port-Manifold-p/301-010-3.htm

kaneboats
03-16-2010, 02:55 PM
Daze suggested upgrading to the newer 1" valves and 1" lines all the way to speed up fill times. That's a great idea but will have to wait a little while. With that setup and 2 Rule pumps running the fill times should be acceptable if not quite blazing.

jmvotto
03-16-2010, 03:11 PM
Pat, thats what the lady at orbit said as well. they do have inventory of older parts but they are not making them anymore.

good to know that dura is the same make .

mmandley
03-16-2010, 09:51 PM
Are you saying your going to hook a Rule pump to both sides of that manifold? Double the water flow threw it?

I would consider going 1inch but i just bought all the new elbows and fitting for my new bags as 3/4th. Might need to talk with WM to see if i can exchange it hummm...

kaneboats
03-17-2010, 02:14 AM
Here's what I've been working on. Not done yet but added a tee to be able to use a second Rule pump-- this is Newty's plan, not mine, but I think it will work great. I also wanted a manifold that would let me leave the water strainer alone. So I put the second inlet right next to the water strainer when I built my manifold. Here's some pix:

mmandley
03-17-2010, 08:27 AM
In your second pic the 2 90 elbows are the pump inlets right?

jmvotto
03-17-2010, 09:26 AM
does the strainer get both inlets?

kaneboats
03-17-2010, 09:34 AM
The gray elbows are the two inlets. I should have been more clear. I left the big strainer for the cooling system intact. I deleted the strainer for the ballast as it would have worked on only one of the two lines anyway.

jmvotto
03-17-2010, 09:42 AM
got it, what are the dimensions of the pvc you used? looks pretty simple, kinda like what jesse did on the larger irritol valves

kaneboats
03-17-2010, 09:55 AM
It's all 1". Yes, I got the idea from Jesse and after talking with Daze yesterday while I was in Home Depot I decided to just make it. The whole thing was only about $15. I spent almost that much on the one piece of hose for the second side (forgot the hose clamps though).

jmvotto
03-17-2010, 11:19 AM
Man i wish i had my boat here. I am jealous of all these projects. i don't get mine until may 1st.

jasonwm
03-17-2010, 02:52 PM
Might need to talk with WM to see if i can exchange it hummm...

Absolutely, just get in touch with us to setup the exchange.

JesseC
03-17-2010, 04:30 PM
It's all 1". Yes, I got the idea from Jesse and after talking with Daze yesterday while I was in Home Depot I decided to just make it. The whole thing was only about $15. I spent almost that much on the one piece of hose for the second side (forgot the hose clamps though).

I realized the same thing as you, I priced out using sprinkler parts to build the manifold versus just building one from PVC. I think my manifold alone cost about ten to 15 bucks, I should have done it a long time ago.

kaneboats
03-17-2010, 07:16 PM
You know, I hope you consider joining us this year at Lake Sinclair. Lots of us would like to meet you. It ain't that far.

moombadaze
03-17-2010, 08:10 PM
You know, I hope you consider joining us this year at Lake Sinclair. Lots of us would like to meet you. It ain't that far.

Second that.