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View Full Version : Antifreeze Winterizing 2007 Outback by Deerfield



deerfield
10-09-2009, 09:26 PM
Finished the collector today. Used PVC pieces to create a means of capturing (without a mess) and recirculating antifreeze through the engine. Tomorrow I will adapt a feeder line from a capture tank (probably a twenty gallon bucket positioned under the collector end) to the raw water impeller. By letting the engine idle and come up to operating temperature I hope to also get antifreeze through the lines and core of the heater. Also will change oil and filter. Have not made up my mind whether to pull the engine block drain plugs and empty lines, or leave everything intact for the winter. Will post more pics tomorrow.

deerfield
10-10-2009, 09:35 PM
UPDATE: Ran the engine till it reached operating temperature. Took no more or less time than sitting in lake water. As mmandley noted, there is a reduction in the PVC size. It starts at 4" and goes to 2", so back pressure was not an issue. After reaching operating temperature, I shut off the engine, emptied the catch basin, and filled it with 3 gallons of non-toxic antifreeze. Started the engine and let it run for about 5 minutes. Ran the heater for confirmation that the engine thermostat was open allowing antifreeze to circulate through the heater core as well as the engine.

How do I remove the flame arrestor? Need to do that in order to fog the engine. For the life of me I could not get it off the intake manifold neck.

deerfield
10-29-2009, 12:17 AM
yearround - The Home Depot receipts are vague. They list by such item terms as cleaner, fitting, and pipe, but provide no sizes. Total cost for PVC pieces w/ tax came to $59.11. I also bought the flap wheel sander at Home Depot. Cost $7.97. Used it to open up the inside diameter of the main collector tubes of the manifold assembly. Off the shelf they were just a hair too tight of a fit over the exhaust pipes. As mentioned in my PM earlier today, I had to sand them (used the 60 grit course) for a proper fit. When installed, manifold does not conflict with exhaust flaps. Here's a few more pics to help explain the approach I took. - Deerfield

yearround
10-30-2009, 06:19 PM
do you put this over the exhaust flap? or inside the flap? the top of the exhaust is not round. i guess i could pull the flap off.

deerfield
10-30-2009, 10:51 PM
yearround - Outback exhaust has a different design where it comes through the hull. Instead of outside as on your LSV, the flap swings from inside the exhaust tip as you can see from the picture I took this evening and posted below. Can you fit the PVC collector tube over the tip if you remove the flap? If not or the flap is not removable, can you fit the PVC inside the exhaust tip? - Deerfield

deerfield
10-31-2009, 06:35 PM
snowboardcory - The antifreeze I bought at West Marine is intended to be mixed with water and safe up to 40 below zero. In fact, instructions state that it should not be used full strength to prevent engine damage. I will stop by West Marine tomorrow and look again at the water/antifreeze ratio on the packaging. Good point though, as many antifreeze products are meant to be used full strength. - Deerfield

DOCDRS
10-31-2009, 07:25 PM
It looks like maybe you should drain your block and acc after wards unless you use the -100 antifreeze, depending on where you are located. Here are some interesting facts to add fuel to the debate

Now, a thing or two about freeze protection:

Most people assume that the freeze rating on the jug of anti-freeze meant that you were protected to that temperature (e.g., the anti-freeze did not freeze until that temperature was reached), The fact is, winterizing products are rated by burst protection and not freeze protection. So when we say that an anti-freeze solution will protect our copper plumbing pipes to -50 deg F, it means that a copper pipe filled with this product will burst at -50 deg F. The actual solution will start to form ice crystals at approximately +12 deg F. As the temperature drops, the solution continues to form more dense ice crystals and expands. As the solution expands, it puts more pressure on the pipe and at -50 deg F, the pipe will burst. A PVC pipe will burst at -15 deg F since it's not a strong as copper pipe.
Since a stored engine is not being used, it is not necessary to keep the system ice crystal free, only to keep it from bursting at a rated temperature. While you can buy more expensive, lower rated antifreezes, you really only need to protect yourself from burst pressure. By the same token, why not spend a couple of extra bucks buy the lowest rating available (especially given the result of a miscalculation). It's cheap piece of mind considering the cost of miscalculating your needs.

viking
11-01-2009, 09:17 PM
Deerfield,
Just to clarify,
You flush your engine with antifreeze and DO NOT drain anything right? Biodegradable I'm assuming so you can just launch and go in the spring?
What do you do with your ballast and sea strainers for winter? Remove them or drain?
Do you flush your bag with antifreeze too or drain that?

Just Curious as I have the same boat (almost exact) as you!

deerfield
11-01-2009, 10:45 PM
viking - Correct on NOT draining. I got the engine up to operating temperature, shut it off, dumped the water from the catch basin, filled it w/ three gallons of eco-friendly antifreeze (engineered to NOT BE USED full strength), and ran the engine for a final five minutes to thoroughly circulate. I did NOT touch any of the drain plugs in the engine block or exhaust manifolds. They remain exactly as they were when installed in May by the dealer as part of the summarization. Also, I did NOT disconnect lines running between the engine and heater core. Those items are protected by the antifreeze circulating when engine was at operating temperature and thermostat was open. With respect to the ballast system, I disconnected all the lines and blew them out, and am storing the ballast bag inside for the winter. I think that covers it. My boat is stored in our unheated garage where it will remain until spring time. I have a small fan that runs all winter under the cover to keep away any chance of mildew and a shop light in the engine compartment, because this is my first time winterizing on my own and am probably neurotic. Since our boats are pretty much the same, can you think of anything I forgot? Thanks. - Deerfield

aintskeered
01-30-2010, 01:19 PM
Deerfield, I built on very simular to yours for my LSV, I also modified my ballest fill pump so I can pump the antifreeze through all of the ballest lines and out the empty pumps for the ballest bags, I built a double ended connector for the ballest bags. Instead of going through the bag, the lines just hook together and dump out the over fill. I have a shower on mine also so had to run it. The one problem I had was the v-drive shaft dumps quite alot of antifreeze onto the ground. Did you find something or some way to collect that water. I used a shallow funnel and clear tube (Lots of duct tape) to return it to the bucket where the exhaust was dumping. Also I used RV antifreeze for there fresh water systems instead of regular antifreeze. Makes me real nervous every year but so far so good. Its been ugly cold here this winter guess I will see.

nibots
02-02-2010, 01:25 PM
Why are you going to all of this trouble? Indmar's instructions for winterizing the engine are to drain the block and manifolds and leave the plugs out. I do that plus drain the shower and heater, lubricate the threads so that they will not rust and have never had any problems. I get 2 or 3 good freezes each winter and store the boat outside. Not only is it just as fast if you are doing a total winterization but you do not have to dispose of any anti freeze. Even if it is biodegradable you can't just dump it into the lake.

aintskeered
02-02-2010, 05:29 PM
Nibots,Most of December and all of January it has not been above freezing... 35-40 feels like t shirt weather now. the cost of reparing freeze plugs and the time to fix broken lines where water setteled, after being drained. No thanx. I am not sure that the antifreeze dose not take less time than pulling all the plugs and blowing out the lines. Its just extra insurance. 30$ and a hour for the extra protection, sign me up.

yearround
02-03-2010, 12:12 PM
i have a setup similar to Deerfield, copied most of his. however, i setup to recirculate everything, catching the water from the driveshaft and the exhaust, speeds up the warmup time and avods waste/disposal of antifreeze.

i do tha antifreeze for similar reasons to aintskeerd, also so that i can go out for a ride on a good day in the winter, then have the boat re winterized in minutes. i do store in my garage which rarely gets freezing temps.

viking
09-16-2010, 02:49 PM
In the process of putting this system together. One modification is I'm using a flexible rubber coupler on the Exhaust instead which eliminates the need to sand out the PVC coupler for fit. Also adding a second tub for a Shaft catch basin as well to eliminate as much waste as possible.
I'll make sure to take pics as I get it all put together.

Deerfield,
Is that just Hot Tub hose you have running from the catch basin to the intake? How much (length in feet) do you suppose you have?

deerfield
09-16-2010, 09:59 PM
Deerfield, Is that just Hot Tub hose you have running from the catch basin to the intake? How much (length in feet) do you suppose you have?

viking - The hose was on a spool at Home Depot, marked for swimming pool use. Whatever you buy, it must be rigid to withstand water pump draw and prevent collapse. I do not rev the engine during the winterization process. Let it idle as it warms up to operating temperature. Then continue to let it run, ensuring the thermostat opens and full circulation through the engine, exhaust, and heater core takes place. I measured the hose. It is 16 feet in length. - deerfield

89PROSTAR
09-17-2010, 03:54 PM
With my last boat I would just warm it using a fake a lake then I would take the hose off the raw water intake and put it in a 5gal bucket of "Friendly" antifreeze. Start the boat, as the bucket empties I would fog the carb, shut it off and be done. The straight anitfreeze mixed with the water in the block gave me the freeze protection I needed (the first couple of times I would take out one of the block plugs to check the freeze protection). I never drained the water first. Wouldn't this work for my LSV?

brad460
09-17-2010, 07:03 PM
Looks like an interesting set-up!

IMO The best freeze protection is absolutely no liquids in the engine or associated parts.

DOCDRS
09-19-2010, 02:27 PM
With my last boat I would just warm it using a fake a lake then I would take the hose off the raw water intake and put it in a 5gal bucket of "Friendly" antifreeze. Start the boat, as the bucket empties I would fog the carb, shut it off and be done. The straight anitfreeze mixed with the water in the block gave me the freeze protection I needed (the first couple of times I would take out one of the block plugs to check the freeze protection). I never drained the water first. Wouldn't this work for my LSV?

NO!!!

It will work if your thermostat is open at the time (not sure how you can make sure it is ,engine has to be hot 162+ if you have a 162 thermostat)......if its closed then all the antifreeze is going out the exhaust and none in your block......thats why you need to drain your block and exhaust manifold then recirculate the antifreeze thru it.......remember all the liquid in the vdrive, hoses, j hose, heater,exhaust manifold, muffler, that will dilute your antifreeze before you ever get the engine up to a temp where the thermostat will open

DOCDRS
09-19-2010, 02:35 PM
Deerfield, I built on very simular to yours for my LSV, I also modified my ballest fill pump so I can pump the antifreeze through all of the ballest lines and out the empty pumps for the ballest bags, I built a double ended connector for the ballest bags. Instead of going through the bag, the lines just hook together and dump out the over fill. I have a shower on mine also so had to run it. The one problem I had was the v-drive shaft dumps quite alot of antifreeze onto the ground. Did you find something or some way to collect that water. I used a shallow funnel and clear tube (Lots of duct tape) to return it to the bucket where the exhaust was dumping. Also I used RV antifreeze for there fresh water systems instead of regular antifreeze. Makes me real nervous every year but so far so good. Its been ugly cold here this winter guess I will see.

You have the dripless shaft seal, just clamp the hose going to it and none will come out the shaft.......when your done unclamp the hose and most of the exhaust manifold w antifreeeze will drain out the shaft where you can recover it

deerfield
09-19-2010, 03:51 PM
You have the dripless shaft seal, just clamp the hose going to it and none will come out the shaft.......when your done unclamp the hose and most of the exhaust manifold w antifreeeze will drain out the shaft where you can recover it

DOC - Excellent observation and suggestion. I will do that. Thanks. - Deerfield

DOCDRS
09-19-2010, 07:45 PM
DOC - Excellent observation and suggestion. I will do that. Thanks. - Deerfield

Deer, you are the one who came up with the great idea, I'm just adding input or my .02 to help others as you are...:)

viking
09-20-2010, 12:01 AM
That is a great idea :) You must have done it before - NO?

DOCDRS
09-20-2010, 09:57 PM
nope , never done it, have just spent a bunch of time looking at that little blue hose........but i winterize my seadoos and you have to clamp a pile of hoses during antifreeze winterization.....and it seemed like a simple solution to a problem....almost too simple at first... :) and if you come up with enough ideas eventually one is going to make alot of sense....... remember my cork idea:) that i think has been my simplest idea to date....maybe i will show you guys how I overwinterize my boat someday

aintskeered
09-22-2010, 02:41 PM
Yup mine will be clamped for the process....... Great thougt I just never thought of it Thanx!!!

KISS.......

K eep
I t
S imple
S tupid

MartinCaron
09-23-2010, 12:45 PM
I didn't knew the raw water pump was strong enought to pump liquid from the ground up to the freeboard... I would have been afraid of toasting the rubber impeller.

lewisb13
09-23-2010, 12:47 PM
Its a positive displacement pump so it generates vacuum.

MartinCaron
09-23-2010, 04:16 PM
You convinced me, this year I'll winterise it myself.

MartinCaron
09-27-2010, 11:06 AM
I almost fried an impeller trying to sip water from a bassin on the ground to the water intake... It did not come close to succeed.

I ended up running the motor with the fake-a-lake for 15 minutes then drop the bypass hose from the pump to a tank (inside the boat..) filled with 8 gallons of -50 anti-freeze.
I drained the 2 sides of the block + the 2 manifolds and I'm now 110% sure the thermostat did open as it took a good 5 minute to sip the 8 gallons of anti freese an the motor became realy hot because the antifreeze was at room teperature.

89PROSTAR
09-27-2010, 11:42 AM
That's similar to how I have always done it. I always drain a little from each side of the block to make sure the antifreeze circulated through the block.

MartinCaron
09-27-2010, 11:58 AM
sometimes temperature drop to minus 30 in my part of the country, so winterizing is taken seriously

lewisb13
09-27-2010, 12:05 PM
I mean, even though it generates vacuum, I wouldnt just be trying to suck it out of something on the ground. Is it really that big of a deal to pick up your antifreeze container to shoulder height or even let it sit on the rear lockers or swim deck while the boat is running? I agree with what everyone else is saying in the last few posts. Id run it for a while to get the engine nice and hot and then I would circulate antifreeze and either completely drain or partially drain all compartments. This ensures that even if you dont get everything drained, well then theres probably antifreeze wherever theres leftover water.

MartinCaron
09-27-2010, 12:18 PM
It ended well anyway. I traded the "antifreeze recirculation" idea by a massive quantity of antifreeze wich eliminate the need for reciculation. I would realy like to see deerfield's steup in action... The only difference between us is that i was pumping across the V-Drive instead of directly into the pump housing.

viking
09-27-2010, 12:58 PM
It ended well anyway. I traded the "antifreeze recirculation" idea by a massive quantity of antifreeze wich eliminate the need for reciculation. I would realy like to see deerfield's steup in action... The only difference between us is that i was pumping across the V-Drive instead of directly into the pump housing.

I'll try and take video when I winterize this year. Built the same setup as Deerfield and tested it out a week ago. Worked like a charm pumping from a catch basin :) I'll pull the floor and pinch off the dripless shaft line when I do it to minimize lost fluid. I hooked my line to the intake side of the sea strainer which is about 2-3ft. from the intake scupper FYI.

OH - and I also intend to drain after I re-circulate anti-freeze to double up on winterization just to make sure. It can get pretty cold here in Montana dead of winter :(

DOCDRS
09-27-2010, 01:49 PM
this method is good as it coats everything with an anticorrosive which may help to prolong seals n gaskets?

deerfield
10-16-2010, 07:25 PM
You have the dripless shaft seal, just clamp the hose going to it and none will come out the shaft.......when your done unclamp the hose and most of the exhaust manifold w antifreeeze will drain out the shaft where you can recover it

DOC - I took your idea on the blue hose to the next level. I installed an inline ball valve to make the winterization easier. Instead of pinching the blue hose, now I simply turn the valve shut to keep antifreeze from flowing out the dripless shaft seal. Found the parts in the plumbing aisle at Home Depot. Check out the pic. - Deerfield

viking
10-16-2010, 07:29 PM
Stuart - I was thinking of the same thing. Haven't got into it to winterize yet so thanks for posting a finished pic. Looks like you put the ball valve about 1/2 way along the line near the plugs for easy access too? port side? How'd it work?

My only concern would be a reduction in flow due to the fittings but I don't know if it'd be meaningful or not?

deerfield
10-16-2010, 10:54 PM
viking - I have not tested it yet, but don't expect to encounter a flow rate issue. The brass assembly is same size diameter as the factory fitting on the dripless shaft seal. I will let you know if there is a problem. Still have not done the antifreeze step. Maybe tomorrow. Here's a pic that gives better context to location of the new ball valve shut off. It runs along the engine port side. - Stuart

DOCDRS
10-17-2010, 12:55 PM
Stuart, is that a diy install? My oem hose comes from between the exhaust drain quick couplerm

deerfield
10-17-2010, 04:26 PM
DOC - It's a DIY install. My Outback did not come from the factory with a quick disconnect feature in the blue hose that runs water to the dripless shaft seal. Below is a picture of the engine before install and after. You can see where I placed the ball valve. - Stuart

deerfield
10-17-2010, 06:22 PM
How'd it work?

Perfect! Tested today as part of the winterization. Very cool to shut the line to the dripless shaft seal with half a turn of the ball valve. No spilled antifreeze.

viking
10-17-2010, 06:46 PM
GREAT :) Bought all the fittings/valve today. Will probably winterize the boat next weekend!

DOCDRS
10-19-2010, 04:54 PM
DOC - It's a DIY install. My Outback did not come from the factory with a quick disconnect feature in the blue hose that runs water to the dripless shaft seal. Below is a picture of the engine before install and after. You can see where I placed the ball valve. - Stuart

No , I mean is the dripless system( not the ball valve) diy or oem, mine comes off the exhaust drain coupler , your looks like its coming from the engine water feed tube

viking
10-19-2010, 06:12 PM
No , I mean is the dripless system( not the ball valve) diy or oem, mine comes off the exhaust drain coupler , your looks like its coming from the engine water feed tube

It's OEM Docdrs......Mine looks exactly as Deerfields! Line comes from front as you stated.

DOCDRS
10-19-2010, 06:20 PM
what does it plumb off of?
thanks doug

viking
10-21-2010, 11:27 PM
what does it plumb off of?
thanks doug

Doug,
It's plumbed off the intake side on the bottom of where the J-tube connects (not sure what that is called?) :) Here's a pic.

viking
10-22-2010, 12:24 AM
Here's a quick vid of the setup in action for those intersted!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DilR2Yyu-K0

MartinCaron
10-22-2010, 01:29 AM
Wow good job! I was sceptic, but i'm forced to admit that it seem to works incredibly well.

deerfield
10-22-2010, 03:41 AM
Here's a quick vid of the setup in action for those intersted!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DilR2Yyu-K0

viking - You are the man! Great video showing exactly how the recirc system works. Near fell out of my chair watching you pan the engine and there is the inline ball valve in the blue hose to the dripless shaft seal. Like I was looking at my own boat. Neat. Gotta confess first time a cranked the engine I was sweatin' bullets that the recirc system would fail to draw from the tank and I'd damage the raw and engine cooling water pumps. Man, did I breath a sigh of relief when liquid came out the exhaust. Pretty cool to see something actually work. Any way, nice work and thanks for posting. - Deerfield

viking
10-22-2010, 11:11 AM
deerfield...........I just posted the vid and pretty much copied "your" system. You deserve all the credit :idea:

But it does work extremely well. And the shut off valve for the dripless seal works like a charm. What an easy/simple fix!

Sampp1963
03-02-2014, 10:02 AM
Hi all,
I have a 2006 outback. I also use the recirculating system and it works perfect. I do not drain the antifreeze from the block. My boat is in my garage all winter long and is always over freezing point....my car is outside freezing (I'm from Quebec...).
I don't have that blue hose for the dripless seal. I think that's new starting in 2007??? Right ?

I will have a new 2014 Mondo next summer. Will I have a cooling line for the shaft seal??

Here's a pic of my system....19353

Thanks