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  1. #11
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Las Vegas, Nevada
    Posts
    1,582

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    Quote Originally Posted by mmandley View Post
    I herd some chatter last season about taking out the springs in the Sprinkler valves. Does this have any ill effects? I understand the procedure of removing them.

    If i remove the springs whats the effect other then faster fill times? Every benefit generally comes with a negative.
    That was one of my experiments. It did not work. The spring helps keep the diaphragm closed. I remove the spring and water went through the valve and the bag filled with water.
    Tazz 07' Moomba LSV --Kicker Marine Amps (MX700.5 & MX350.4) 6 polk DB651 speakers, 4 MB Quartz Marine Speakers, 10" Boston Acoustic Sub, Z-5 Cargo Rack, Custom Speaker/Light Bar, modified ballast system, Custom LED Rings
    Live life to the extreme and no less!!

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Beavercreek, OH
    Posts
    237

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    You're right, there is always a negative to a positive.

    I get some water in my other bags if I'm trying to fill just one.

    If I was building from scratch I wouldn't have sprinkler valves, but a pump for each bag. Eventually I'll re-do it that way.

  3. #13
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Houston, TX
    Posts
    33

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    I don't mean to hijack the thread, but have any of y'all seen one of these before? It might be a little less convenient but imagine the fill times!
    http://houston.craigslist.org/spo/1706201122.html

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Copperas Cove, TX
    Posts
    1,761

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    My personal opinion is that the Johnson reversible pumps are going to be the most practical and fastest system given you have one for each bag and a dedicated intake. That's the route I'm going.

  5. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by you da man View Post
    My personal opinion is that the Johnson reversible pumps are going to be the most practical and fastest system given you have one for each bag and a dedicated intake. That's the route I'm going.
    A system with one pump per bag will definitely be the fastest, regardless of the type of whether or not the pump is a flexible vane impeller like the Jabsco or Johnson or an aerator like the Attwood.

    From a plumbing and installation standpoint flexible vane impeller pumps are the easiest, but an aerator based system can be just as fast and functional if installed correctly.

    We've been VERY impressed with the Johnson pumps so far, they're significantly faster than the Jabsco, and if you already have a switch, the cost savings is considerable (even if you need switches, they're still cheaper than the Jabscos).

    Either one is a great pump, it's just nice to have a choice now.
    WakeMAKERS | WakePROPS | WakeSOUNDS | EasyBoatCare

  6. #16
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    Ft. Collins, CO
    Posts
    169

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    Quote Originally Posted by sailing217 View Post
    We did this test with an equal environment on the centurioncrew website.
    I found that thread and it has some very interesting data. You have to register to even view the centurioncrew forum, so I'm copying one summary post here. Link: http://www.centurioncrew.com/index.p...e-4#entry20855

    His test isn't exactly perfect because the pump is above the water line - sucking water instead of pushing it but I think it's close enough to draw conclusions.
    My conclusions:
    1. The aerator pumps will never be faster than the impeller pumps. The Tsunami is just slight faster than the Jabsco totally unrestricted but the aerator pumps lose volume very quickly with added pump head (vertical height from pump outflow or restrictions such as the hose, fittings, etc.)
    2. In his tests, the Johnson pump outperformed the Jabsco by 17-31% depending on the setup.
    3. If using the irrigation valve method, Irritrol valves perform much better than the Orbital valves when using aerator pumps. These valves really hurt the performance of the aerator pumps but the impeller pumps are affected less. (I read that the only problem is that the Irritrol selenoids aren't specified as ignition proof, but they are water proof which probably means they are sealed well enough to be ignition proof but no guarantees.)


    Quote Originally Posted by Fresh Fish via CenturionCrew
    Today I completed the backyard test of the Johnson Ultra Ballast pump and the 1” Irritrol 700 Series Valve with and without the internal spring installed. I have incorporated the results of these tests into the previous posted test data.

    To conduct these tests I utilized the following:
    - Swimming pool (unrestricted water source)
    - 12 vdc Lawn & Garden Battery with 160 cold cranking amps from Pep Boys
    - Jabsco Ballast Puppy Advertised @ 11 GPM or 660 GPH
    - Johnson Ultra Ballast Pump Advertised @ 13.7 GPM or 822 GPH
    - Mayfair 1000 aerator pump Advertised @ 16.66 GPM or 1000 GPH
    - Tsunami 1200 aerator pump Advertised @ 20 GPM or 1200 GPH
    - 1” Orbit Jar Top Valve with the internal spring installed
    - 1” Orbit Jar Top Valve without the internal spring installed
    - 1” brass 12 vdc valve
    - 1” Irritrol 700 Series Valve with the internal spring installed
    - 1” Irritrol 700 Series Valve without the internal spring installed
    - 1.25” OD x 1” ID vinyl hose (no kinks)
    - 3 orange Home Depot 5-gallon buckets measured at 1-gallon increments
    - Stop watch set to countdown 1 minute with alarm

    Each setup was tested three separate times to validate the accuracy of the test and the test was not begun until a maximum stream of water had commenced. The “Unrestricted Test” was measured with a 3’ section of 1.25” OD x 1” ID vinyl hose from the pool to the pump and a 3’ section of 1.25” OD x 1” ID vinyl hose from the pump to the 5 gallon bucket without a valve attached. Each of the pumps and valves were new out of the box.

    Here are the results for the Jabsco Ballast Puppy pump:
    Advertised @ 11 GPM or 660 GPH
    Unrestricted Test: 11.5 GPM or 690 GPH
    1” Orbit Jar Top Valve with internal spring: 8.0 GPM or 480 GPH
    1” Orbit Jar Top Valve without internal spring: 9.5 GPM or 570 GPH
    1” brass 12 vdc valve: 10.0 GPM or 600 GPH
    1” Irritrol 700 Series Valve with the internal spring installed: 9.0 GPM or 540 GPH
    1” Irritrol 700 Series Valve without the internal spring installed: 9.5 GPM or 570 GPH

    Here are the results for the Johnson Ultra Ballast pump:
    Advertised @ 13.7 GPM or 822 GPH
    Unrestricted Test: 13.5 GPM or 810 GPH
    1” Orbit Jar Top Valve with internal spring: 9.5 GPM or 570 GPH
    1” Orbit Jar Top Valve without internal spring: 12.25 GPM or 735 GPH
    1” brass 12 vdc valve: 12.5 GPM or 750 GPH
    1” Irritrol 700 Series Valve with the internal spring installed: 12.25 GPM or 735 GPH
    1” Irritrol 700 Series Valve without the internal spring installed: 12.5 GPM or 750 GPH




    Here are the results for the Mayfair 1000 aerator pump:
    Advertised @ 16.66 GPM or 1000 GPH
    Unrestricted Test: 10 GPM or 600 GPH
    1” Orbit Jar Top Valve with internal spring: 3 GPM or 180 GPH
    1” Orbit Jar Top Valve without internal spring: 6.5 GPM or 390 GPH
    Ύ” brass 12 vdc valve: 6.5 GPM or 390 GPH
    1” brass 12 vdc valve: 7.5 GPM or 450 GPH
    1” Irritrol 700 Series Valve with the internal spring installed: 5.75 GPM or 345 GPH
    1” Irritrol 700 Series Valve without the internal spring installed: 7.75 GPM or 465 GPH

    Here are results for the Tsunami 1200 aerator pump:
    Advertised @ 20.0 GPM or 1200 GPH
    Unrestricted Test: 13 GPM or 780 GPH
    1” Orbit Jar Top Valve with internal spring: 3 GPM or 180 GP
    1” Orbit Jar Top Valve without internal spring: 6.5 GPM or 390 GPH
    Ύ” brass 12 vdc valve: 6.5 GPM or 390 GPH
    1” brass 12 vdc valve: 7.5 GPM or 450 GPH
    1” Irritrol 700 Series Valve with the internal spring installed: 6.25 GPM or 375 GPH
    1” Irritrol 700 Series Valve without the internal spring installed: 9.5 GPM or 570 GPH

    The height of the 5-gallon bucket utilized was 14.5 inches, but I held the hose slightly above the bucket at approximately 18 inches. Why is this important? For those not familiar with aerator type pumps; aerator type pumps such as the Tsunami 1200 and the Mayfair 1000 move high volumes of water, but at a very low pressure. A pump’s max flow is rated at what is referred to as “Open Flow” or inlet-to-outlet, nothing attached. Anytime an aerator pump has to push water upward there is going to be a significant drop in max flow rate as can be seen with the Tsunami pump which had a tested flow rate of 13 GPM or 780 GPH at 18 inches vertical. Here is a link to the Rule 1100 aerator pump which advertises a flow rate of 18.33 GPM or 1100 GPH, but according to the chart at 3.35’ it flows 13.17 GPM or 790 GPH (a significant drop) http://www.rule-indu...emdoc134791.pdf

    My first concern with removing the internal spring from the 1” Orbit Jar Top Valve and the 1” Irritrol 700 Series Valve was that with no power applied to the valve (valve closed) that there may be a possibility of the inlet pressure unseating the diaphragm and allowing water to pass through the valve. The 1” Orbit Jar Top Valve without the internal spring installed remained closed and no water passed through, but the 1” Irritrol 700 Series Valve without the internal spring installed initially allowed water to pass through for about 3 seconds and then reseated itself and no additional water passed through. For those wondering, the Jabsco Ballast Puppy pump came with the green colored impeller installed and the battery was recharged between test sets.

    As can be seen from the test data, removing the internal spring from the 1” Orbit Jar Top Valve and the 1” Irritrol 700 Series Valve had a significant affect on water flow (way to go CenturionSkier!). It also appears from the test that when utilizing either of these two aerator pumps that the diaphragm type valves will have a significant impact on max flow rate. Incorporating a valve also had an impact on the max flow rate of the impeller pumps, but to a lesser degree due to the increased pressure of the impeller type pumps.

    As Bigshow pointed out, we can probably expect to get a slight increase in output from these pumps if they are being feed 14 vdc from the boats electrical system.

    <snip>

  7. #17
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Tallahassee, FL
    Posts
    11,242

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    Great stuff. Thanks for posting this. It should be very helpful.
    My Mom said I'm not allowed to get wet!
    2008 LSV
    2000 Outback LS (sold)
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    PWI
    LLTR!!!!!!!!



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