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02-05-2011, 05:04 PM #11'06 Supra Launch 20SSV-gone but never forgotten
02-05-2011, 09:34 PM #12
Thats really wierd that you don't have those drivers side cup holders I thought all lsv's had em.-2012 Supra 21v
Wetsounds Rev10's, Wetsounds SYN 4, Wetsounds XS-12, Alpine MRP-M500,
JL Audio JX360/4, Polk MM651 Interiors
-2008 Mobius LSV
02-05-2011, 09:58 PM #13
02-05-2011, 10:35 PM #14
Yes, you are so right. Just about two decades ago the woofer technology really improved and subs worked in much smaller enclosures. But, we're talking about large 12-inch woofers here combined with bass-reflex rather than acoustic suspension, which means much larger boxes. Also, these boxes are not unusually large by normal standards. Its just that they are having to adjust to the Supra and Moomba floor humps that steal alot of room and restrict the available depth.
02-05-2011, 11:02 PM #15
I looked at their spec sheets and those volumes just seem really large to me, anywhere from 2-4 cubic feet???? I just put a JL Audio in the truck granted it only does 1000w with 600RMS hits, but it is only in a .625 cubic foot box and it rattles the mirrors in the truck. I really need to hear one of these setups I guess to become a believer. I am planning on putting the same JL in the boat since I can tuck it into such a small box. I like to stretch my feet out (even though I barely hit 5'9"). Many of the super high wattage Rockfords are still in 1-1.5 cubic foot boxes which I ran in my old setup and I had issues keeping the glass latched in the back of the Tahoe.
02-05-2011, 11:31 PM #16
Yes I agree, a 10-inch might be .625 net while a 12-inch might be double that at 1.25 net. Once you convert a 12-inch from sealed to bass-reflex that could enlarge to 1.75 before port volume, port wall, driver displacement and exterior construction. Before you know it you can have an external volume of over 3 cu. ft. for a 12. So those dimensions do seem in line.
But I also agree that you can get great results from the right 10-inch as we do it all the time.
Last edited by EarmarkMarine; 02-05-2011 at 11:34 PM.
02-05-2011, 11:40 PM #17
Greetings guys -
Here's A few comments about these enclosures and boxes in general. Regardless of what size shoe you wear (size 9.5 here), you need to ask yourself what your woofer goals and strategy will be. Put simply, an 8" woofer or 10" woofer in a sealed enclosure is going to be a slam dunk design / installation wise. They require less materials and generally provide a linear roll off in the bottom end frequency wise. They are also safer from a woofer protection point of view because you do not need to fool around with subsonic filtering. Dont get me wrong, I shouldnt exclude 12"s or even 15"s in the sealed realm. They will give you more and more output although you need a larger and larger enclosure space to house them which becomes a problem under the helm area.
So why all this talk about Vented enclosures? Because of one simple fact--- you gain 3dB of ouput at the the tunning frequency of the enclosure. Not 1, not 1.5 not 2.5, not 10. You get 3Db of increased output which is a LOT! But it comes at a price (literally) as well as strategically... As has been mentioned, the enclosures are larger. We know space is at a premium on a boat. So that could be a problem.
So which method is better---Sealed or Vented?
Simple answer is neither. The 'better' answer lay in the execution and achieving the end result you had in mind.
Here's my cliff notes on making an informed pick.
- Limted budget---> go sealed.
There are just a lot less materials involved.
- Small woofer size--> go sealed.
One could argue, with this point, but my take is, If your going to go to the trouble to do a vented enclosure, maximize it with a 12 or 15 if the space permits. If space is a concern, then optimize with a decent 10" woofer sealed.
- dIY crowd...If you have limited understanding in design / buiding skills--->Sealed.
A few bad calculations on the vented design would have drasticlly bad results on port tuning / perforance etc.
- All out performance--> Vented.
As described above, 3dB advantage @ at the tune freq. and this is especially impressive when powered with a robust amplifier.
Another thing to think about is available amplifier power. If your looking to run a subwoofer from a 5 channel amplifier, you are probably going to be limited to a woofer in the 400W range. In the real world, this usually spells 10" or entry level 12" flavors.
As it applies to the Exile enclosure offerings, we opted to focus on the part of the market that is looking to maximize performance. And that means vented enclosures with a lot of complicated considerations on design, construction and excecution. Heading this direction usually means amplifier upgrades, wire upgraes, and at the very least, woofer upgrades. Trust me, it's not cheap.
The Devil is always in the details. So here you have them: 100% composite construction. enclosure sits .80" off the floor on the moomba for drainage and sits 1.5" on the supras. The vented design on the moomba's is built to go up over the hump and fill that space which allows the enclosure to consume only 8" of space at the bottom including the fascia. The Supra's have ample space in the helm and we are seeing more people asking for vented 15" designs. Yes, MrSack asked us to build him an 18" design and we told him to forget it. There is only so much space to draw upon.
I dont have a video of Sacks exact enclosure. But here's a link to a slightly modified version of his design on a Malibu. It gives you a good feel for how complicated this stuff really is. Supra Big15 Link.
Here's a couple of pictures I snapped of Nates supra last week. sorry for the quality...
This setup is not for the faint of heart.
Last edited by Brianinpdx; 02-06-2011 at 12:23 AM. Reason: sp
02-06-2011, 12:42 AM #18
You can manipulate a bass-reflex alignment to generate anywhere from zero to plus 5 dB for example. You can add a narrow but substantial peak for maximum output. You might hear this box across the cove, especially at a signature note. Or, you can run a very well damped alignment for less gain and a moderate increase over a broader and more linear (treats all frequencies equal) bandwidth. This box may sound more musical. Or, you can place the emphasis on deep bass extension without any real increase to the peak output. This box might provide deep bass compression but lack midbass transient response. Its up to the designer and his priorities whether sound quality or output. And, sometimes the confines of the available space may dictate the type of alignment you get.
A typical acoustic suspension (small sealed) enclosure will have an earlier bass roll-off but a roll-off that is more gradual. Because of the softer slope the sealed woofer will have deeper extension and greater output at the lowest registers.
A ported enclosure will have a steeper roll-off below its tuned bandwidth. But it can give you a nice increase in an area where there is comparably much more content. A bass-reflex/ported enclosure can be better damped (more output with less excursion) around its center tuning frequency, thus having lower distortion. However, below the tuning frequency the woofer will be more out of control, have greater distortion and lose power handling...to the point it is very vulnerable. Well below the tuning frequency, the woofer and port will be out of phase creating an acoustical short circuit. And that is why a subsonic filter is more important for a ported enclosure.
Everything is a trade-off in one form or another. There is an application for just about any enclosure type including a bandpass enclosure. And similar to a ported enclosure you can turn it into a single note DB monster or a smoother, more linear and musical product. A bandpass may give you 6dB of more output over a good octave and a half with linearity. That's equivalent to four times the amplifier power!
02-06-2011, 01:43 PM #19
Here is a suggestion or two for anyone removing/test fitting/reinstalling this or other large or complex enclosures.
Use a generous amount of painters' tape on all surrounding surfaces. Lay on two layers. It releases easier and leaves less residue.
Directly over the painters' tape lay on two layers of duct tape because it is much tougher and resistant to a tear. Don't allow the duct tape application to make direct contact with the boat interior surfaces.
This will save the chafing and keep your interior crisp.
If you don't do ALL of your own service then remove the enclosure before the servicing boat dealer has to do any work requiring underdash access. They will typically hammer you for the R&R cost, plus, since they didn't originally install it they could scar the surrounding surfaces before they realize it.
We have a method of using studded mounting pads that are left in place when the enclosure is removed. They feature locator dowels. This means that everything fits back into place exactly as it was originally installed and there are no new holes made in the enclosure that would serve to undo the airtight integrity of the enclosure. The local servicing entities and boat dealers love it too as it makes their job infinitely easier.
02-06-2011, 02:10 PM #20