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Thread: DIY Ballast?

  1. #11
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    Im going to go with the two rear bags and the center bag in the ski locker. Im going to get the biggest bags I can cause I want atleast 2000 lbs of ballast. And the difference with me is Im not doing an upgrade. Im starting from scratch. So what exactly is the purpose in a sprinkler system, ball valves, intake, etc.

  2. #12
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    Keuka Lake, NY
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    Sprinkler valves allow the control of flow from one single fill pump using the fill switches, kind of like a splitter.

    Intake is where the water comes in from the bottom of the boat.

    Ball valve is just a shut off protection at the water intake..
    A Day at the Lake...Priceless
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    Joe V
    2012 Möbius XLV~ Loaded & Exiled
    2007 Outback V ~ sold

  3. #13
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    Now that makes alot more sense. So in what order do these go in? Adding in 3 jabsco pumps.

  4. #14
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    Oct 2009
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    Wisconsin
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    Quote Originally Posted by wakeflip View Post
    Now that makes alot more sense. So in what order do these go in? Adding in 3 jabsco pumps.
    No sprinkler valves needed with jabsco (reversible) pumps. I would go with the Johnson pumps as they are cheaper right now and have a good rep. The Johnson's don't come with reversible switches, but those can be picked up for $20/ea.

    1) Intake(s) on bottom of boat: You can go with one intake per pump or make a manifold to split one intake into three feeds.

    2) Ball valve(s): One for each intake - they are you're life-line in the system, close ball valve to stop water from coming in the boat in case of system malfunction.

    3) Reversible pumps: One for each bag - location is going to be the main decision for you. Not much room in the engine compartment.

    4) Ballast Bags: Looks like you've made that decision.

    5) Vent/Over fill lines: One for each bag, 3 more holes in the sides of your boat.

    I would plan everything out as much as possible, know how much ballast hose, fittings, clamps, silicon, wire, etc. you need. Go with 1 in. dia. fill lines (50 ft roll, should leave you with extra just in case) and 3/4 in. dia. Vent/Over fill lines (15-20 ft should be plenty).

    I know Wakemakers can be a pain to get a hold of, but once you do they will be extremely helpful. Write down all your questions before you call, they will take the time to go through everything. There prices are very competitive imo.

    Take a quick look at my mods pics for the basic idea, http://moomba.com/msgboard/album.php?albumid=260
    however I am making several changes to improve the system. If you plan on going with something similar, pm me with any questions and I will update you on what I would/am changing.

    Enjoy

  5. #15
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    Mar 2011
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    Jackson, Ga
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    So if I do one intake split into three, I will only need one ball valve. Correct?

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by wakeflip View Post
    So if I do one intake split into three, I will only need one ball valve. Correct?
    Stupid question Shoulda looked into that one before I asked. Obviously only one ball valve is needed inbetween the hull and manifold. So between my reasearch and the help from all you guys, here is what I have come up with. Seems alot more simple now. Just a few more questions though.
    1.The vent for the bags, can I tee all three together and run one hose, that way I only have to put one hole in the hull for venting?
    2. The Vented Loop Anti-siphon Valve from wakemakers, does it actually do its job? Ive read about alot of problems on auto drain and filling.
    3.Wakemakers also sells an inline check valve. Do I need these for anything? If so, for what purpose?
    4. With Johnson reversable pumps, does it push the water back out for emptying the same place it sucks in water for filling?
    5. If I tee in all three vent lines, and use a single intake with triple pump manifold, then the only holes Im going to have to drill are one for the intake in the bottom hull and one under the rub rail for venting. Correct?


  7. #17
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    Oct 2005
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    Durham, NC
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    A couple of things I notcied in you diagram. First, I think if you use impeller pumps, you won't need the vented loops. Also, It may be cheaper/easier to install 3 intakes instead of one with a manifold. If you use 3, you can use 3/4" or 1" intakes and valves straight to each pump. If you use 1, you have to size it to satisfy all three pumps. If you take the cross sectional area of the fill lines x3. You will end up with like a 1.5" or 2" intake, which is huge, and can cause installation fitment issues. The are also very expensive. As far as tying the vents together, you can do it, but I wouldn't recommend it. For one, you will have to run a bunch of extra hose all over the place to do it. 3/4" thru hulls are cheap. You can probably buy it for less that it would cost to buy all that hose. Plus, the other benefit of separate vents is that these are also the overflows that let you know when the sacs are full. This especially helps if the sacs are different sizes since they will fill at different rates. Wakemakers has a kit you can buyt that comes with everything except the sac that you can buy. If you buy three sacs, buy three kits and go to town. They even include the 3M sealant. This is very handy, and a pretty good deal.
    Brian Roberts
    2001 Outback DD

  8. #18
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    Oct 2009
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    Wisconsin
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    Quote Originally Posted by wakeflip View Post
    Stupid question Shoulda looked into that one before I asked. Obviously only one ball valve is needed inbetween the hull and manifold. So between my reasearch and the help from all you guys, here is what I have come up with. Seems alot more simple now. Just a few more questions though.
    1.The vent for the bags, can I tee all three together and run one hose, that way I only have to put one hole in the hull for venting?
    I agree with NCSUmoomba, don't do it for the following reasons: It will cost more, You really want to know when each bag is full. Don't be too afraid of drilling holes in your boat, it is intimidating, but gets easy after the first one.

    2. The Vented Loop Anti-siphon Valve from wakemakers, does it actually do its job? Ive read about alot of problems on auto drain and filling.
    Does its job for aerator pumps, not need for reversible pumps. When the reversible pump impeller is not running it prevents water from entering/leaving the bag. One nice advantage of reversible pumps!

    3.Wakemakers also sells an inline check valve. Do I need these for anything? If so, for what purpose?
    It is nice to have one check valve on each overfill/vent line, this creates a vacuum during emptying and sucks the bags completely flat. Also for me it seems to prevent the bags from losing water when the boat is listing.

    4. With Johnson reversable pumps, does it push the water back out for emptying the same place it sucks in water for filling?
    Yes they do, same as the Jabsco pumps.

    5. If I tee in all three vent lines, and use a single intake with triple pump manifold, then the only holes Im going to have to drill are one for the intake in the bottom hull and one under the rub rail for venting. Correct?
    Correct, but drill a dedicated vent for each bag.


    I really like your diagram, helps us all know what you are thinking. Don't use a scupper intake with reversible pumps, it is not needed and will slow draining if the boat is moving. Use mushroom type intake(s). Ultimately I think it is best for you to use a dedicated intake for each pump to get optimal filling and draining times, but that is a question for wakemakers. Wakemakers site says that a 1 in. mushroom intake can supply up to 2,200 GPH of water, and the Johnson pumps are rated at up to 720 GPH per pump, so 2,160 GPH for all three. Might be better to go with a 1.25 or 1.5 in. intake if you decide you only want one. Again, best to run this by the people who deal with these types of questions everyday.

    Have you decided where you are going to be placing the pumps? Also, I would fill from the stern end of the rear bags and vent from the bow end. I am going to be making this change, REASON: a vacuum is created when I empty my rear locker bags, sometimes when the bags are near empty there is so much suction created that the fill/empty line sucks to the inside of the bag and blocks it from emptying further. This usually happens most often if I am emptying the bags while underway, with the bow higher and the bags near empty the leftover water moves to the stern end of the bags and tends to cause this issue.



  9. #19
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    Jun 2009
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    Victoria BC Canada
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    Looks like you've gone from confused to ballast expert in about 48 hours. Good job dude! 2007 Outback V has got a really nice setup and is my inspiration for my setup which I start next week.
    2011 President's Trophy - Check
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    2007 Outback V

  10. #20
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    Mar 2011
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    Jackson, Ga
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2007 Outback V View Post
    1.The vent for the bags, can I tee all three together and run one hose, that way I only have to put one hole in the hull for venting?
    I agree with NCSUmoomba, don't do it for the following reasons: It will cost more, You really want to know when each bag is full.


    Don't use a scupper intake with reversible pumps, it is not needed and will slow draining if the boat is moving. Use mushroom type intake(s). Wakemakers site says that a 1 in. mushroom intake can supply up to 2,200 GPH of water, and the Johnson pumps are rated at up to 720 GPH per pump, so 2,160 GPH for all three.


    Have you decided where you are going to be placing the pumps?


    [/COLOR]
    So with more research and talking to the guys at wakemakers, I think I have just about everything I need and will be doing a complete DIY thread with detailed pics next week. I have decided to go with three different lines for the vents due to the reasons stated above. I want to know when each bag is full. Also, I will be going with a mushroom intake for the reasons stated above as well. Now as far as the manifold system, I decided against it and will be doing individual intakes for each pump. The reason for that being as wakemakers stated: If you have three pumps running off one intake, if you try to empty one bag for surfing, sometimes instead of pushing the water out of the intake, it pushes it past the other pumps and starts to slowly fill the other bags. Same with filling, sometimes it will start pulling water from the other bags instead of just from the intake. Running individual intakes will be easier for installation, and less problematic. Which is the goal Im going for. Ive decided to go with the 750# bags in the rear lockers, and the 370# in the ski locker. Additional, I will be installing a bow bag as well. One question I do have is this. With the 750# bags in the rear lockers, will they push all the way to the top of the locker once full? My reason for asking is because Im wondering if I can mount the pumps to to the top of the wall in the rear locker. It would be easy to install, and easy to access if I needed to change impellers. I wanted to go with Simers pumps due to the fact that they are reversable and $80 shipped, but I dont know where would be a safe place to mount them since they are not ignition protected. Any suggestions on that matter?
    Last edited by wakeflip; 03-28-2011 at 06:45 PM.

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