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  1. #21
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
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    Snellville, GA & Lake Sinclair
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    7,054

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    Quote Originally Posted by lsvboombox View Post
    Pp terd, thats an interesting user name.
    it may be PP Peter D.
    Drew
    New ride: 2012 Mojo
    Old ride: 2008 OBV

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Denver, NC
    Posts
    160

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    Lowe's and Home Depot sell lugs which have a "set screw" in the butt where the large diameter wire goes. operates the same way you use the "set screw" on your audio amplifier when terminating ground or power to the amp. You can find these where the electrical hand tools are, usually on the bottom row well hidden from sight.

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Stillwater, Oklahoma
    Posts
    313

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    Quote Originally Posted by EarmarkMarine View Post
    Phil,
    I am a proponent of first crimping, then soldering and then heat shrinking. Our soldered connections have lasted in the field since 1998 when we started our dedicated marine division. I am not familiar with the ABYC standards but I have read comments about the solder fracturing under stress. I believe that would apply to those connections terminating into a circuit board where the un-strain-relieved weight of the cable times shock and vibration could place an inordinate amount of physical stress on a connection that is structurally dependent on the solder joint. If that is the case then that would be a very bad thing to do. But I wonder if those circumstances are out of context with what we normally do in audio and lighting. Would you mind being more specific on this. Inquiring minds want to know....at least one does.

    David
    Earmark Marine
    David-
    In literal terms, those who wrote the ABYC documents restrict the use of single-strand, (read romex) wiring due to work-hardening due to flexing. A soldered joint creates a single-strand conductor for the soldered length; this is the primary argument against it. To your point it might very well be out of context and it is only required for ABYC/NMMA member boat builders building new boats. However, if it is that important to them I will usually try to conform. that being said, I solder mine with a heat gun and then shrink them. Not because it is preferrable, but because it is the best connnection I can make with tools available and no more than I do the work, I am not going to go buy a big proper set of swaging crimpers... As an aside, U.S.C.G. doesn't specifically endorse or restrict any termination method; this based on my research since the other day. SO if I were building a new boat, I can be assured when I solder I am only neglecting ABYC guidelines, and not breaking any law....

    Quote Originally Posted by gcnettl View Post
    Lowe's and Home Depot sell lugs which have a "set screw" in the butt where the large diameter wire goes. operates the same way you use the "set screw" on your audio amplifier when terminating ground or power to the amp. You can find these where the electrical hand tools are, usually on the bottom row well hidden from sight.
    Similarly, ABYC will prevent a set screw from impinging directly on stranded wires like described here, rather requiring that a set-screw-style termination be made where the set screw applies force to an intermediary surface which then compresses the stranded wire bundle. An example can be found on some amplifiers where there is a metal leaf under the set screw. You stick the wire in and when you tighten the set scerw the metal leaf tightens down on the cable. The big box home improvement store connectors like you mention are for large single conductor cables, or large cables where very few strands are twisted up. I personally would not use these on our typical fine multi-strand automotive power cable as they are too big a mis-match application-wise.


    Phil
    Kicker
    Last edited by philwsailz; 04-02-2012 at 02:21 PM.

  4. #24
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Dallas, TX
    Posts
    880

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    Phil,
    Okay...I get it now. We'll be in the dog house with some regulating body no matter how we make the connections!

    All kidding aside, I see many examples of non-strain-relieved RCA female connectors and other rather heavy gauge wires that terminate directly into a fixed circuit board via a soldered connection. And because that wire or cable end bears the weight of the wire/cable and the wire/cable is inflexible at the end, I absolutely know that the solder will fracture over time with the shock and vibration in a boat and the connection will eventually go cold. However, with a Western Electric connection that is soldered and heat shrunk in line with a moderate gauge wire and freely strung or securely clamped or supported in a rigid loom this is mechanically very different than something that terminates into a fixed board, barrier strip or chassis.

    David
    Earmark Marine

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Stillwater, Oklahoma
    Posts
    313

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    Quote Originally Posted by EarmarkMarine View Post
    Phil,
    Okay...I get it now. We'll be in the dog house with some regulating body no matter how we make the connections!

    All kidding aside, I see many examples of non-strain-relieved RCA female connectors and other rather heavy gauge wires that terminate directly into a fixed circuit board via a soldered connection. And because that wire or cable end bears the weight of the wire/cable and the wire/cable is inflexible at the end, I absolutely know that the solder will fracture over time with the shock and vibration in a boat and the connection will eventually go cold. However, with a Western Electric connection that is soldered and heat shrunk in line with a moderate gauge wire and freely strung or securely clamped or supported in a rigid loom this is mechanically very different than something that terminates into a fixed board, barrier strip or chassis.

    David
    Earmark Marine
    True. I used to work for a company that had an accessory electronics piece that would fail as a result of simply installing the RCA cable... You can't fix stupid.... I routinely went in on those and pre-installed stranded-wire jumpers to prevent the inevitable.

    I think a point to keep in mind too is that either one of us in controlled repeatable manner can create a reliable connection, be it crimp, or solder or other, and given the method protect it in an appropriate manner. Given proper crimp tools and I will make a repeatably solid power cable termination that will likely be better than my soldered connection, or at least it will be more repeatable.

    Remove us from the equation and place a minimum-wage worker on an assembly line and you can begin to understand the possible "why's" for the language and the way it is written. I have no doubt that some of the language as currently written was put in place to prevent the "expert of the week" from inadvertantly introducing a common problem over multiple boats due to his introduction of some process that he always used at his previous job as a TV repairman....

    Put an iron and a roll of lead/tin solder in the hands of 30 people and train them for half a day, and I will bet you still find that 30% of the group cannot execute a proper solder joint by the end of the day. Ironically, one can say the same or similar thing with regards to crimping terminations, especially with the average consumer crimping tools available, but that is another topic, isn;t it?

    Finally, with regards to ABYC, most of it is good, and we can argue it, but we can't change it. A consumer does not have to comply while performing updates to his boat, but they are good to have in hand, with some knowledge as to why the boat manufacturers comply; in some instances it can save a life... Consider the automotive starter or alternator accidentally installed on a boat...

  6. #26
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Dallas, TX
    Posts
    880

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    Phil,
    That is presented so logically how could anybody argue with it.

    David
    Earmark Marine
    (Pssst...we may solder and heatshrink)

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