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07-28-2012, 11:32 AM #1Senior Member
- Join Date
- Feb 2005
- Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
What was that one little hint that fixed your heelside jump to get pop?
Howdy. I've been here for years, but remained on a stubborn plateau. Basically, I can't do a wakeboard jump very well at all. Wait, correction -- I can and have, but only a few times when I was experimenting with technique, and could not reproduce what I did right.
I'm looking for you guys to remember what, beyond the obvious of what all the instructional videos and "introduction to jumping" tutorials say, helped you get some really good pop off the wake.
I've solicited help from better riders, seen The Book and Detention 2012, and even paid a coach (who showed up hung over and underslept). Everyone and everything seems to gloss over exactly what needs to happen in that last yard or two as you are getting to and up and wake. Right now, I am going through the LearnWake.com on-line videos, which do add some drills to the Book DVD.
One thing that's failed is asking someone to take a video recording of my drills. They get bored, put the camera down by the time that I've barely finished warming up, and miss the few times that I do something better. Repeat, week after week, season after season. For tomorrow, I've secured a promise to video EVERY jump attempt. In the meantime, I can say that my jumps look pretty much like every other beginner video on Youtube, where the poor sap just cannot seem to stand tall at the wake -- bent knees, somewhat absorbing the wake's energy.
I need to know what the trick YOU found to getting that pop WITHOUT herculean leg strength. As I said above, I've done it, but still cannot figure out what went right.
Years of "working on it" have not led to success. When I was learning to jump on a hydrofoil, a visiting expert did give me a couple of golden hints that our on-board senior rider never thought to tell me. I'm hoping that this thread will replicate that success.
I'm looking for very specific, not general, hints. For example "don't attack the wake" is general, while "approach a bit slower with the board pointed X degrees from perpendicular to the boat" is specific. "Fear is ruining you" is general, while "you are hesitating and slowing down just before the wake" is specific.
Some of the advice that I have received helped with one-wake drills, but not wake-to-wake jumps. The forces are just too high. Something specific and fixable is still wrong and no one has spotted it yet. I am sure that most of you have been in the same spot, so what was that last correction to your technique that helped the most?
In case any of you have read my past posts: knee surgery succeeded in stopping the deterioration. I'm also adding bow sacs to better balance my XLV, which produces too-steep of a wake when there are too many people on board. So, those technical roadblocks have been addressed.
Thanks in advance!2005 XLV, upgraded ballast, Comptech swivel wakeboard and hydrofoil racks, Monster cargo bimini
07-28-2012, 11:39 AM #2Senior Member
- Join Date
- May 2010
- Muskoka, Ontario
As mentioned in another thread, make sure you don't absorb the energy in your legs. If you approach the wake and let your knees flex you make the jump worthless as you have no pop. If you are having a hard time standing tall at the top of the wake, just try keeping your legs slightly bent, but firm and locked and keep that stance all the way through and see if you can transfer the pop from the ramp into your jump, sometimes its hard for people to time standing tall at the top of the wake and push too soon at the trough and get the same result as absorbing the wake.
Also another thing, keep on edge all the way up the wake. My brother is one example. He comes in hard but at the trough of the wake he eases up and has lost a ton of energy approaching the wake. He crests on the other side and the landing is hard. You don't need to carve so hard that the spray hits the people in the boat, but keep a nice slow carve at the beginning and slowly increases the tension all the way up the wake. Also shorten the line to get the feeling of wake to wake and gradually increase the length as you get better.
07-28-2012, 12:26 PM #3Senior Member
- Join Date
- Jan 2008
- Pensacola, FL
First, you need to repeat hitting the wake. When you practice, start, let the boat get to speed and then hit the wake. There doesn't need to be a "warm up" for falling. Yes, your driver will be picking you up a lot.
If you REALLY aren't getting it, start jumping 1 wake. Start on the right (or left) wake, board across the prop wash and hit the wake for a jump. While doing this, ensure proper load on the rope, proper posture of the body and legs, and concnetrate on technique that the videos talk about. You won't get as much air as the trough is lower, but it will work.
Next, shorten your line for wake to wake. The shorter the line, the narrower the wake.
Practice.1997 MasterCraft 205
2008 Moomba Outback
1999 MasterCraft Sportstar OB
1992 MasterCraft 205
1999 Malibu Response LX
1987 Marlin Magnum Skier
07-28-2012, 01:11 PM #4
Edge at the wake with your board at a 45 degree angle. Set your edge by leaning against the rope instead of using the fins on the board. Use the whole wake, meaning ride all the way up it and really use the lip of the wake. Also keep the handle in close to your body. One you get some video post it up and it will give us a chance to give you some more specific tips.-2012 Supra 21v
Wetsounds Rev10's, Wetsounds SYN 4, Wetsounds XS-12, Alpine MRP-M500,
JL Audio JX360/4, Polk MM651 Interiors
-2008 Mobius LSV
07-29-2012, 09:12 AM #5
Learning how to load the line, edging correctly and standing tall with the handle at your hip will get you up in the air.Chris H.
WS420sq,4 Rev8's,JL Amps,2-TypeR 12's,6-Interior Kicker, Green/White LED
07-29-2012, 04:46 PM #6Member
- Join Date
- Feb 2012
- Central, IL
The best way for me to retain line tension when cutting towards the wake is the almost drag my ass on the water. Keep that line tight by your hip and lean back/bend your knees as you cut. Always watch the base of the wake as you are approaching it, then push your legs straight (at least close to it) as your rolling up the base. The flatter your board is as you ride up the wake, the better the pop. Also remember to not absorb the wake with your knees....dont use them as shock absorbers. DO NOT let off the line tension (meaning, stay on your edge) or you will likely get no pop, or be way off balance even if you do get the pop you're looking for.
**I wanted to edit this to say again that I almost have to drag my ass to get the pop/speed needed for wake jumps and tricks. I line up with the boat and allow it to initiate the pull back towards the wake, then I start my progressive cut slowly dropping lower and lower to the water and loading the line. The guys I ride with can tell the instant I start my cut whether or not i'm committed to the trick i'm trying based on where my ass is compared to the water. It will take a lot of watching and experimenting, but maintaining your edge and hitting the wake strong (not mushy) will be the end point you want.
Last edited by Brando86; 07-29-2012 at 04:51 PM.2007 LSV - Brittany Blue - GIII ballast - Alpine CDA-9885 mp3/cd/ipod - Rockford 400.4 ampon the cockpit speakers, Rockford 1000 watt amp powering two 12 inch Rockford subs with Farad Stinger digital capacitor, 4 sets of Rockford component speakers & Rockford bow speakers.
07-30-2012, 01:33 AM #7Senior Member
- Join Date
- Feb 2005
- Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
I am afraid that today's effort to get some video footage went poorly. Normally my lake is sparsely attended, but today saw about 3X more traffic than I have ever seen. It was difficult to get more than a few seconds of good water before hitting other boats' wakes. I expended most of my limited stamina on warmup and drills, so my jumps were even worse rubbish than usual. I had a laundry list of variations to try, including bzubke1's 45-degree suggestion, but I never got that far. I'll have to try again on my cottage vacation this week.
I did get through some of LearnWake.com's "standing tall" drill with no problem whatsoever. However, it did not help in the least when trying to jump wake-to-wake. I find that lots of the better-known advice help somewhat when doing one-wake drills, but not when advancing to wake-to-wake jumps.
Here's the thing: people can say to "stand tall at the wake" all day. I know that that's essential and have been trying for YEARS. I find that it's just too much of a blast on my legs, most of the time. Then once a season or so, I make some variation and it works like magic -- black magic that I still don't understand and cannot replicate often. No huge burst of strength was required. Without know what went right, I cannot practice that good technique. I need more tweaks like bzubke1's 45-degree suggestion. Please keep them coming.
Most of the other riders I've met have had this problem. The few who overcame it just cannot seem to articulate what they are doing. Over on LearnWake's forums, there are tons of postings with similar issues, trying to tease out some more information that the experts seem to consider either too obvious or inconsequential to state until specifically asked.
So, if you ever had a problem with standing tall at the wake, how specifically did you overcome it?
Special question for Brando86: in your response, you first said "The flatter your board is as you ride up the wake, the better the pop", but then your second paragraph drove home the point about being on edge. So, flat or on edge on the wake? Please elaborate if possible.2005 XLV, upgraded ballast, Comptech swivel wakeboard and hydrofoil racks, Monster cargo bimini
07-30-2012, 10:07 AM #8My Mom said I'm not allowed to get wet!
2000 Outback LS (sold)
P5 Danielo Diamond 58"
07-30-2012, 12:05 PM #9
Ian, I feel you, bro! I am in the exact same situation. I have been wakeboarding since 2005, and just cannot get my jumps consistent. I haven probably made 10-15 excellent wake jumps with tons of pop, but I have no idea what I did to get that. The harder I try to recreate it, the worse my jumps get.
Lately, I have been trying to not think about it as much. I have been trying to edge to the wake with my legs already straight, so that avoids the whole standing tall issue. However, you can't cut from very far out and do that. I have been going just outside the wash, maybe 10 feet from the wake, keeping my legs straight, and drifting into the wake. I think I anticipate the wake too much, so I have been trying to not really look at, just kind of look at the shoreline beyond. This helps since I don't know when I will hit the wake, I won't anticipate it.
It kind of reminds me of firing a gun, some people flinch when they fire it because they are anticipating the shot. My brother busted me big time once with this by asking me to shoot his 7 mag rifle, but not chambering a round. I pulled the trigger and jerked the rifle, even though it didn't fire. What an a-hole, but it did prove a point!
The other thing I have trouble with is breaking at the waist and letting the handle out. I have been trying to keep a stacked body position, meaning keep my body in a straight line from my feet to my head, perpendicular to the board. that way the energy of the wake is pushing straight up through my body, and my weight/ center of gravity is aligned with the axis of the force. If I bend at the waist, forward usually, then the energy and force of the wake pushes my body into a curve and I fall out the front. Along with this is keeping the handle glued to the hip. The line needs to be pulling at your center of gravity in order to stay upright during the jump. If the handle comes out and up, it forces you to break and the waist and it pulls you over as well. I wish someone made a hook that I could wrap around my waist that I could hook the handle on.
This also relates to regulating the line tension. The more tension generated, then the more likely to get pulled forward and break at the waist, and then you lose the axis of force acting on you. However, with not enough tension, there sill be no air. I have yet to figure out what the optimum line tensions should be.
I don't know if any of this will help, but I just wanted you to know that you are not alone, and that these are the things that I have been working on, that seem to be helping, but it is slow going.
I think alot of it is a mental issue. I am very analytical and into the physics of things, and I think that hinders me quite a bit. I also have OCD, so that doesn't help much either. I think if I could get out of my head more, I would have better results.
Good luck!Brian Roberts
2001 Outback DD
07-30-2012, 12:49 PM #10
This biggest thing that holds me up from going big is the fear of crashing. I've had a few BIG face slappers and it scared the shit out of me, cos it hurt.
I am almost making it W2W, I know I could do it easily if I just said "F@$k it" and just charged hard and not worried about getting an "amber-lamps" ride afterwards.
For me, I get the most pop by edging out as far as I can on my TS, and then setting on my HS and cut back to the boat with a progressively harder cut, the closer I get. Then as I hit the trough I kind of roll my feet and board forwards to toward the boat (pivot through my ankles) to flatten the board out some and then do a sort of jump/stand, as if you were to jump in slow-mo. I exaggerate the pop and lift my front foot higher than the rear, so that I have less chance of doing a digger, but I am sure that saps some of the jump energy when I do it. This is my second season wakeboarding and I'm 37...so I'm not in a hurry to kill myself yet like some of these fearless kids I see that just do whatever without any fear.2004 Moomba Mobius LS