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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Wisconsin
    Posts
    11

    Default 2012 New Stereo Help

    Bought a 2012 LSV last fall. The stereo - package A, 4 cabin speakers only, like all stock system is weak.

    I am not looking for tower speakers, but am looking to have a descent stereo for cruising or at least hear it while the engine is running.

    What is the next basic, best bang for the buck, to improve the stereo?

    Adding an Amp between existing head unit and speakers?
    Small Sub?

    Should I add bow speakers and how much of a PITA is that?

    Not looking for a killer system just something that sounds better than whats there.
    2012 Moomba LSV (Upgraded from Four Winns H210 270hp)

  2. #2
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Carlton Oregon
    Posts
    6,028

    Default

    Great looking boat man.
    The best Bang for the buck is adding an amp.

    You should have kicker speakers, and while they dont sound the best right now, add 100 a channel amp and they will wake right up.

    You can get a shop to install an amp fairly cheap due to the 12 already has an amp board, and the batteries are very close by.

    Adding BOW speakers is a bit of work but mostly its cutting the holes. I think Ian Ashton did a set for one of his buddies boats.

    Next thing you might consider is getting a 10icnh sub added, these can be done by a shop for a reasonable amount and will really give depth to your music and make it sound rich in the cabin. You can very easly have a shop do an amp, sub, install for under 1K.

    Bow speakers to add at a should shouldnt be more then a couple hundred.
    Malo <--- Means--Evil or Mean One. This explains a lot.
    2013 Mojo 2.5 Skylon Tower. Bestia < Beast >
    Exile ZLD
    6 SX65M Cabins
    6 XM9 Towers
    1 XI Big 15 Woofer in a custom Fiberglass box
    1 XI 1K Harpoon
    2 XI 800.4
    1 XI 2500.1
    2 Interstate 2400U 6V Golf Cart Batterties
    Custom 1 Off Evolution Cover

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Tallahassee, FL
    Posts
    11,297

    Default

    Definitely recommend doing it all at once and getting enough amp to do the whole job. Sub makes a huge difference and actually helps your in boat speakers sound better because their amp can be set to HP (high pass). This was one of the first things I learned about this stuff.
    My Mom said I'm not allowed to get wet!
    2008 LSV
    2000 Outback LS (sold)
    Exile Tunes
    PWI
    LLTR!!!!!!!!



  4. #4
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Lake Wylie NC Area
    Posts
    797

    Default

    All good advice. Top of the line speakers can sound like poo on just head-unit power, while cheapest off-brand will sound like gold with some power behind them. Adding an amp will give you the needed power to get up and over the engine, wind and water noise while under way. Adding a pair of bow speaker can also help while under way by getting some sound out in front of you, rather then the main cabin speakers that can be behind you. A mild 10" sub will make a world of difference for the system. It will fill in those lower notes that the in-boats do not like to play.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Wisconsin
    Posts
    11

    Default

    Thanks for the input. Looking at the radio manual I see the speakers are connected via the radio harness. I also see the radio has RCA out for an amp for 4 speakers and an output for a amp for subs.

    Does anyone know how the speakers are connected to the wiring harness? Do they need to be cut are are they have disconnects?

    Would I be best off getting a Sony amp such as Sony XM-604M, which gives you 60/channel over stock stereos 17 or will will that still be too weak?

    I would still need another amp just for a sub. Where would you mount a sub?

    Its a small lake and I dont want to annoy the neighbors, but would like to hear the radio.
    2012 Moomba LSV (Upgraded from Four Winns H210 270hp)

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    I live in Bostic, NC. I normally boat on lake James in Marion, NC
    Posts
    107

    Default

    my boat a 2011 xlv had a disconnect but u would still have to cut the wires loose from the radio. if you plan on adding an external amp. i would recommend replacing the factory wiring tho mine developed a bad connection in the wiring harness and cause speakers to drop out. i replaced it with cadence 14ga it was very cheap and only took couple hours and made a big difference. it only took a hundred ft of wire. and had a bit left over. how ever mine had bow speakers so urs should take less wire and less time. a external amp will do wonders for ur stock speakers it will sound like a completely different set up and remember its better to over power the speaker and than to under power the speaker. if it calls for 100 rms it would be better to have 120 rms than 90 rms. brand has no matter just need to make sure its a quality unit and has a true rating. if the amp is cea compliant its a pretty good pice of hardware.

    a sub would help lots too. i have 2 10's under the drivers helm of my boat.

    hope it helps
    2011 Xlv with 325hp and stock Gravity lll

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Lake Wylie NC Area
    Posts
    797

    Default

    C5er

    I do not know a ton about that Sony amp, but heres what I can say at first glance. Although the amp cap run low-pass on the chnls 3/4 for a sub, its only going to deliver 160W for a sub. This leaves chnls 1 and 2 to drive your 4 in-boats. With a pair of speakers per chnl, they will only be receiving 35W each. For the time and investment, I would like to see them receive more. So, I would suggest using that amp to jun all 4 in-boats IF you when with that amp. Another reason why I recommend not running a sub off that amp, this kinda puts the cart before the horse. This amp will directly dictate the the sub. To make the most of the gear, we try to best match the driver's watts RMS with the amps RMS at a given load. 160W is not much for a sub in an open environment like a boat. I would let the available space you have for an enclosure, dictate the shape, style and gross volume of the enclosure. This will intern have some bearing on the best sub for that install. Now that the sub is chosen, then the best amp can be picked out. I would probably wait till the sub is determined, before buying any amps, unless the sub is going to be done as a 2nd phase. There are lots for 5 and 6 chnl amps out there that will drive all the in-boats and a sub. They are 2 amps in one chassis, so install is easy and do not take up a lot of space.

    On the flip side, I do not know if its old-school power hungry Class-A/B or high efficient full-range Class-D on the power supply side. Class-a/B amps can be found cheap and the sound quality was the bench-mark for years, but for a boat system where we often rely on just battery power, spending a little more on Class-D is a worth while investment. The will consume far less battery amp hours while producing the same watts output. This means longer play time, less unwanted heat produced in the storage locker and shallower battery cycles.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Dallas, TX
    Posts
    880

    Default

    I want to add a bit more info to what Mike (MLA) wrote about Class AB. Yes, Class AB and Class A was the sound quality benchmark up until this century. Class AB is a solution to the awful distortion in Class B. That is where the positive and negative transistors are not linear from zero voltage to a given voltage but are very fast from a given voltage to any change in voltage. It's like a relay race where the runners can't run at the same speed in order to hand off. So there is immense distortion through the transition (or hand-off so to speak). Class AB solves this by using a bias voltage to both the + & - transistors so they are alrady operating within their linear range. This opposing bias voltage cancels each other but eats up and wastes a ton of energy lost as heat. So the band aid for the artifacts of Class B is precisely what creates the excessive heat and inefficiency in Class AB.
    The analog switching artifacts of Class D may be present in a poorly designed or cheaper product. Like anything there are various quality levels. But now the better Class D amplifiers are the sound quality equal of the better Class AB amplifiers BUT with a 60 percent efficiency increase. Class D has been adopted by several of the most esoteric home Hi Fi companies. And those cork sniffers do not settle for anything less than perfection.

    David

  9. #9
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Carlton Oregon
    Posts
    6,028

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by c5er View Post
    Thanks for the input. Looking at the radio manual I see the speakers are connected via the radio harness. I also see the radio has RCA out for an amp for 4 speakers and an output for a amp for subs.

    Does anyone know how the speakers are connected to the wiring harness? Do they need to be cut are are they have disconnects?

    I would still need another amp just for a sub. Where would you mount a sub?

    .
    Yes there will be a harness with a male and felmale connector. I prefer to keep this connection spot because it allows me to just disconnect and do all my wires without them reconnect it. The factory only runs the harness up high and leaves no room very little room to strip and put new terminals on the wires. Plus i liked the fact the wires already had tags telling me what speakers they were going to.

    There is nothing wrong with just home running new wires from each speaker though.

    Id reccomend a seperate amp for the Sub, since you are looking to keep the costs down, and you want just a nice pleasurable sounding system in the boat, and not something to make the other resisdents on the lake mad. I would look into 5 channel amps. Kicker has a nice 5 channel as well as several others. This will give you a 4 channel amp for High pass on your cabins, and a single Low pass with enough power to run your sub. This also keeps wires simple.

    As for placement, the 12 LSV is the new Top Hull and has a ton of room in the cubby, you can simply build a box for that area and slid it up to the bow seats. You might have issues once you close the observer seat and if you store gear because you will be suficatting the sub.

    What i would reccomend is the Drivers area under the dash. That hump in the floor unscrews. Then you have a big space up there. I would <and i plan to on my 13 Mojo> have the box up there. Then when you put the floor in make a hole in the upper panel with the carpet, or remove it all together to allow the sub to breath.
    Malo <--- Means--Evil or Mean One. This explains a lot.
    2013 Mojo 2.5 Skylon Tower. Bestia < Beast >
    Exile ZLD
    6 SX65M Cabins
    6 XM9 Towers
    1 XI Big 15 Woofer in a custom Fiberglass box
    1 XI 1K Harpoon
    2 XI 800.4
    1 XI 2500.1
    2 Interstate 2400U 6V Golf Cart Batterties
    Custom 1 Off Evolution Cover

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    De Pere WI
    Posts
    4,199

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by EarmarkMarine View Post
    Class D has been adopted by several of the most esoteric home Hi Fi companies. And those cork sniffers do not settle for anything less than perfection.
    David
    this made me chuckle a little..

    so to further this, and it's really off topic-sorry, I am shopping for a new home receiver and did a little daydreaming as we all do. I thought that home audio really biased toward class a for the clean sound and tubes were the very high end of that. when did class d come about and why the trend since most audio snobs are of a higher income bracket and there's no concern with running out of power in the wall plug? more of a "green" statement??
    '06 Supra Launch 20SSV-gone but never forgotten

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