dhyams, I just copied the points you made so I could respond individually. Makes it easier.
I don't think for one second think that the lack of responses means I am correct. Its part of why I've become passionate about it in this thread. I see the tally up top, I am a CPA, I live in AR. I am used to my thoughts having not bearing on anyone. I have even sent emails to moderators here, of opposite beliefs, to make sure I'm not out of line.
I'm not seeing this as me vs you. I can appreciate the debate and will undoubtedly learn something by listening to a differing take. Everyone should listen to both sides.
Alright, back on track ... Healthcare ...
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11-08-2012, 02:48 PM #61
Last edited by KG's Supra24; 11-08-2012 at 02:53 PM.2006 Supra 24SSV
11-08-2012, 02:50 PM #62
* on principle, I object to the government forcing me to do anything. Now (soon) whether I want to or not, I HAVE to buy health insurance (or pay the "tax" as specified by the Supremes). What can't the Congress force me to do, with this precedent in place? Katy bar the door, as they say.
I understand where you are coming from. Sadly, we cannot depend on individuals to take finances into their own hands. Health insurance is financing for medical emergencies. When people don’t have insurance, others end up footing the bill, through the government. If you don’t have insurance you are costing the government and taxpayers money. What is the rationale for not buying health insurance?
* the bill is a gift to the insurance companies, who now are set to reap a windfall. We are forced to buy, so hey, we have to buy it from somewhere, right?
How many of the insurance companies supported obamacare? They don’t want this passing, they are doing great! They were putting up money to defeat it. This bill is not good for insurance. According to Forbes, they spent 102.4 mil in 15 months to run advertising against the bill.
* the bill will force people out of work. The health care costs will be shifted to the employers, and these employers WILL cut payrolls. Employers don't magically have more money, so if the cost of employees goes up, it will have to be compensated for by laying some people off. The bill is a job killer. Here's one small anecdotal example:http://lasvegas.cbslocal.com/2012/11...-22-employees/ but this will start to happen all over the US. I guarantee it.
So a business owner, before knowning the actual cost to him, fired employees because Obama won? That is the exact concern I have with the media coverage. It pushes knee jerk reactions. This is precisely “us vs. them”. I’m not telling you which way to vote but some of you are getting fired if Obama wins.
* moral hazard. The bill separates, even more than things are now, the customer from the service provider. Less choice for the consumer, and less desire to keep costs down on the supply side.
One of the biggest goals of Obamacare is to bring down the cost in the medical industry. My favorite part about the bill is curtailing some of the profits from big pharma. It will actually provide more choices and lower cost the way I see it.
* the bill doesn't seem to address the root problem: cost of health care. There are ridiculous import/export rules that protect big pharma, and these rules need to be abolished. Tort reform is needed to cut out silly lawsuits that cause doctors to have to pay huge amounts for malpractice insurance.
This is a great place to stop referencing Obamacare and call it what it is. Affordable Healthcare Act. To drop cost, from my understanding, the goal is to price control prescriptions and reign in the unnecessary procedures performed by doctors. It will reward hospitals that operate efficiently. I know the word price control is scary but it’s a necessary evil, it cannot rely on supply and demand bc the demand is inevitable. I also truly feel it is our responsibility to care for Americans, not turn them away bc they can’t afford it. If you think people should be turned away bc they can’t afford it I will assume you haven’t seen a hospital bill lately. Who can afford it?
To add context to the unnecessary procedures performed by doctors, hospitals have weekly meetings to decide how to get non-insured patients out the door and how to run additional test on insured patients.
Also, as mentioned earlier, the American medical association is on board with the bill.
* we don't know what ELSE is in there. Re. Nancy Pelosi.
Lol, I got nothing on that one.
Last edited by KG's Supra24; 11-08-2012 at 03:00 PM.2006 Supra 24SSV
11-08-2012, 03:51 PM #63
11-08-2012, 04:10 PM #64Senior Member
- Join Date
- Jan 2008
- Tampa, FL
Do yourself a favor and read "The Naked Constitution". It clears up a lot a issues that we are dealing with today.2008 Outback
11-08-2012, 04:24 PM #65
I'll be completely honest with you, I won't read it bc I simply don't set aside enough time to read large publsihings. I did go to pull a review and the first thing I saw with this ...
"If you love Glenn Beck, you will love this book." ... "Like me, I’m sure you are sick to death of the Left trying to trash or amend the Constitution. "
With that being said, I'm sure I'd have difficulty reading it as I put Glenn Beck in the "bat shit crazy" column, understandably so, no?
If you have read it, what parts of the constitution is the "left" trying to destroy? Not trying to argue, just continuing conversation.
May be hard to believe but I have no party affiliation. Hopefully all my comments haven't come across that way. You had asked why people vote Obama ... did any of those reasons mentioned explain why someone might vote for Obama? I tried to give solid answers but got hit with "go read conservative books"
Last edited by KG's Supra24; 11-08-2012 at 04:35 PM.2006 Supra 24SSV
11-08-2012, 04:49 PM #66
So I ordered some tea at lunch today and dropped my phone. I bent over to pick it up and farted loud enough for two waitresses to hear.......at hooters😱
sent from my ipad2 via a wireless network which usually sucksJason
Go Hard or Go Home.......it's MOOMBA time!!
2009 Moomba Mobius LSV
11-08-2012, 04:55 PM #67
Petty, that's a great story. Take it over to the off topic section bud.06 Supra 24 Gravity Games
11-08-2012, 05:07 PM #68
11-08-2012, 05:26 PM #69Senior Member
- Join Date
- Jan 2008
- Tampa, FL
I do have a party affiliation, but I also have a degree in History. I enjoyed the book as it looks at many of the points in history where the strength of the constitution or the clarity of the constitution have been twisted. Many of those deeds came from both parties, not just one.
I too find Glen Beck to be an idiot. I don't listen to him. In fact, it is really hard to listen to any "news" or "talk" show since the age of 24 hours news. They can only keep a show if they are vulgar in their disdain for the other party (Left or Right).2008 Outback
11-08-2012, 05:26 PM #70
Healthcare costs scare me and so does obamacare. It makes me wonder when my employer is better off paying the penalty than offering me coverage. Scares me as to what else is in it......'06 Supra Launch 20SSV-gone but never forgotten