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11-08-2012, 05:35 PM #71
maxpower, I can agree with that.
Sandm, I want to copy and paste but it would be REALLY long so I'll just post the link. Personally, I feel it is a pretty good summary of the major points of "obamacare". I will say up front that Reddit is a liberal leaning website, won't deny that for a second, but I do feel the summary stays on point. It also uses citations so you can read for yourself if something seems out of wack. Please don't take my disclaimer as it being liberal and not even try (not meaning you specifically sandm). If you are interested in what is in the bill, it is a solid read.
Last edited by KG's Supra24; 11-08-2012 at 05:42 PM.2016 Moomba Mojo
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11-08-2012, 06:43 PM #72* the bill is a gift to the insurance companies, who now are set to reap a windfall. We are forced to buy, so hey, we have to buy it from somewhere, right?
How many of the insurance companies supported obamacare? They donít want this passing, they are doing great! They were putting up money to defeat it. This bill is not good for insurance. According to Forbes, they spent 102.4 mil in 15 months to run advertising against the bill.
* the bill will force people out of work. The health care costs will be shifted to the employers, and these employers WILL cut payrolls. Employers don't magically have more money, so if the cost of employees goes up, it will have to be compensated for by laying some people off. The bill is a job killer. Here's one small anecdotal example:http://lasvegas.cbslocal.com/2012/11...-22-employees/ but this will start to happen all over the US. I guarantee it.
So a business owner, before knowning the actual cost to him, fired employees because Obama won? That is the exact concern I have with the media coverage. It pushes knee jerk reactions. This is precisely ďus vs. themĒ. Iím not telling you which way to vote but some of you are getting fired if Obama wins.
* moral hazard. The bill separates, even more than things are now, the customer from the service provider. Less choice for the consumer, and less desire to keep costs down on the supply side.
One of the biggest goals of Obamacare is to bring down the cost in the medical industry. My favorite part about the bill is curtailing some of the profits from big pharma. It will actually provide more choices and lower cost the way I see it.
* the bill doesn't seem to address the root problem: cost of health care. There are ridiculous import/export rules that protect big pharma, and these rules need to be abolished. Tort reform is needed to cut out silly lawsuits that cause doctors to have to pay huge amounts for malpractice insurance.
This is a great place to stop referencing Obamacare and call it what it is. Affordable Healthcare Act. To drop cost, from my understanding, the goal is to price control prescriptions and reign in the unnecessary procedures performed by doctors. It will reward hospitals that operate efficiently. I know the word price control is scary but itís a necessary evil, it cannot rely on supply and demand bc the demand is inevitable. I also truly feel it is our responsibility to care for Americans, not turn them away bc they canít afford it. If you think people should be turned away bc they canít afford it I will assume you havenít seen a hospital bill lately. Who can afford it?
To add context to the unnecessary procedures performed by doctors, hospitals have weekly meetings to decide how to get non-insured patients out the door and how to run additional test on insured patients.
Also, as mentioned earlier, the American medical association is on board with the bill.
Emotions are just fine; I cry for someone who can't get the care that they need just like you probably would. But if we are going to be a country of free men and women, we cannot be bound to take care of our neighbor. Those good intentions turn into shackles that make us slaves of the state. So we choose. I choose freedom, and you don't. It's really as simple as that.
There will always be terrible stories of someone who can't get the care they need. The poor will always be with us, as will the rich. My vision of the "way things should be" are that they exist charity hospitals (remember them?) to take care of these needs, and money-based charities set up to give care to those in need. But don't have government with its boot on my neck forcing me to pay for my neighbor. If I want to pay for my neighbor, I will, on my own volition.===================================
2005 Moomba Mobius LSV
11-08-2012, 06:45 PM #73===================================
2005 Moomba Mobius LSV
11-08-2012, 07:12 PM #742016 Moomba Mojo
2006 Supra 24SSV - Traded
11-08-2012, 07:26 PM #75Senior Member
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Remember as children, our parent's didn't have medical insurance, just catistrophic. You just paid the doctor when you went. The good, bad old days.
My wife is a nurse, she can't find anything good about Obamacare. My brother in law has his own small business, he is struggling with Cobra until it kicks in. Everyone has an angle.
I have to be confused, I deplore government social programs, but I retired from the military and have government sponsored health care. I'm part of the problem.1997 MasterCraft 205
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11-08-2012, 08:21 PM #76
I'm sure we'll continue to hear about how it's all Bush's fault and how ol' Barry just couldn't overcome the "mess" he inherited. If he uses that cop out excuse anymore I'm going to choke. Things are no better now than they were then and they aren't going to be any better 4 years from now....book it! I'm very disappointed in the way our country is going...oh well if the Mayans are right we have less than 2 months anyway!
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11-09-2012, 09:01 AM #77
Im not political but i will say this.
Im sooooo Happy everyone is bitching soooo much about the Political campains, and the winner vs loser.
Because Not once in Months have i herd anything about the End OF The World which is only 34 days away according to the Mian Calender LOL.
Since this election everyone is so sure the US is doomed, for the next 4 years. So im just happy we have all come to the realization the world isnt stopping in 34 days, because i for 1 want another couple more boating seasons LOLMalo <--- Means--Evil or Mean One. This explains a lot.
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11-09-2012, 10:47 AM #78
We definitely have two different angles on this. My premise is somewhat based around the fact I feel healthcare cost are artificially inflated through inefficiency Ö as are most government programs (agreed) but itís not in the governments hands. Obamacare isnít perfect but itís a start Ö.
Also, look at what you know about insurance companies. Massive advertisement budgets and around here, the biggest buildings in town. Now, the part of Obamacare that puts limits on how much can be spent on ďadminĒ cost really dives off into a grey area for me. There should be a way to encourage that behavior without any dictation.
Preexisting conditions Ė guess who is paying for that now? You do. Using obesity as an example, someone with cardiac issues comes into the ER with no insurance. They get helped (itís the ER) but canít foot the bill. They donít qualify for medicare bc they make too much money. There are not enough Bill Gates and Warren Buffets to pay the hospital bills for these people. So what happens, the hospitals are forced to artificially inflate cost to patients with insurance. Cost to insurance companies go up, your premiums go up. Meanwhile, this person gets sent home immediately (bc of no insurance) and receives no follow up care and more importantly no preventative care. He is back in two months bc of this and the cycle starts all over.
Wanted to go into more but donít have time right nowÖ. We do have a fundamental difference though. I have a hard time not lumping healthcare into ďpromote the general welfareĒ along with education, police, fire, etc.2016 Moomba Mojo
2006 Supra 24SSV - Traded
11-09-2012, 11:11 AM #79'06 Supra Launch 20SSV-gone but never forgotten
11-09-2012, 03:16 PM #80
I thought the world would end on Yk2A Day at the Lake...Priceless
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