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11-14-2012, 12:13 PM #81
Re: business owners laying people off for "their team" or "their agenda": Business owners don't do this, except in some rare, weird case. Business owners make the calculation of how much benefit each employee provides to their business. If you pay an employee $50,000 per year but having that employee only brings in an additional $40,000 profit to the company, that's a net loss of 10K. If the owner has any sense, that person will get laid off. Either that or the business will eventually shutter. As the weight of Obamacare comes to increase the cost per employee, there will be people laid off. No way around that. The story I gave was just the quickest one I could lay my hands on; I'm sure that there are hundreds of others already, and will be thousands more to come. Not a good economic picture.
Re: patent laws. Yes, I agree that's part of the problem too, along with the import/export laws. I'll have to admit that I don't know what Obamacare does about the patent laws, but the cynic in me would guess that it pays lip service to the problem rather than really solving it.
Re: obese guy who shows up at the ER but cannot pay. This is why EMTALA must be repealed, and goes back to my point that health care is not a right. Who is government to force a service provider to provide a service irrespective of whether the client can pay? EMTALA introduces huge price distortions as the health care industry shifts costs to those who can, and then you end up with what we have now, that you describe above.
Re: general welfare. I'm not a constitutional scholar, but you are quoting a generic phrase from the preamble. The preamble is there to orient the reader to what is to come, not the law itself. The law is codified in the rest of the Constitution. I could just as easily justify my position solely on "the blessings of liberty" part of the preamble. But neither justification would be valid.===================================
2005 Moomba Mobius LSV
11-14-2012, 01:04 PM #82
I can see your point/side on just about everything there. Especially somewhat understanding your "grand scheme" outlook.
I do see somewhat of a different economic side to it. I tend to take a similar approach to it the way I look at the taxing system, when in reality, i know less about the complexity of the healthcare structure (and I know a decent amount through experience). There are no doubt mass inefficiencies in the system, how the mix of government bloating and users taking advantage makes up those inefficiencies is probably still to be seen/known.2006 Supra 24SSV - Traded
11-14-2012, 01:12 PM #83
KG, thanks for the insights and things to mull over. It's not often that discussions like this can take place in a civil manner in today's world. I think we both are just looking for a solution; it's just that we have a different ideal.
2005 Moomba Mobius LSV
11-14-2012, 01:21 PM #84
I also appreciate the dialogue. Cheers!2006 Supra 24SSV - Traded
11-15-2012, 12:11 PM #85
I too am impressed by the civil discourse. We all need to try harder in this regard. If you look at what Obamacare is trying to achieve, it's purpose is arguably noble- health care for everyone. But, I fall in the category of people who rightfully ask why this is the job of a federal government.My Mom said I'm not allowed to get wet!
2000 Outback LS (sold)
11-15-2012, 03:44 PM #86
sure would be nice if the stereo section could have this kind of civilized dialogue.
good job guysHey, Its Moomba time
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life is about finding the balance between being a responsible adult and staying young at heart
11-15-2012, 08:02 PM #87