Well, I think your point is that we need a third party that represents the people who go to work and pay their bills. The left is too eager to promise handouts and subsidies using other people's money. Meanwhile the right has sold out to the biggest businesses-- the ones that open a big box store and put 20 mom n pop shops out of business. The right uses small business for convenience but really does little to benefit them. The folks in the middle get squeezed from both ends. Just keep in mind that when O talks about raising taxes on the rich he's talking about folks like us as part of the "rich" -- otherwise the numbers don't add up.
A real plan would lower taxes for everyone and cut spending. That would boost the economy and speed up the transactions thereby increasing the tax base. But, eliminating "waste" by putting government in charge of health care will not work -- that I can guarantee.
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11-07-2012, 03:16 PM #31My Mom said I'm not allowed to get wet!
2000 Outback LS (sold)
11-07-2012, 04:09 PM #32
You are exactly right in that the getting rid of the current party system would go along way for the majority of america. No doubt about that. I'm not sure I agree on the tax side, though. Some examples of where my thinking comes from ...
Tax rates on dividends. We have subsidized dividend income by allowing a tax rate of 15% opposed to the ordinary rates (which would vary depending on your income level). Now, your Romney's of the world (and honestly a whole world that operates above the heads of many americans concept of business) don't "have to have" ordinary income like you and I. They can live off savings, per say. The idea behind the subsidy is that americans shouldn't be taxed on their savings OR on investing in the market. Great and noble concept, that entices people to invest, awesome. The problem, average "rich" joe (who you are saying gets lumped in) invest $50,000 in ABC Inc., he gets dividends for his investment and the taxpayers subsidizes the difference bewtween 15% and his normal rate (not necessarily the highest rate). At his small investment (yea i called 50k small bc on wallstreet it is) how much benefit are you providing for him?Now, your Romney's of the world (the real rich that ooze capital) need a way to make money but not a 9 to 5 (i mean who would right?) So how? They invest dollars into ABC Inc (often times, enough money that gives them control of the company). They have the power within these companies either over actual interest or through lobbying interest to basically "run" the company. They push for profits and pay out dividends, to themselves. They do it bc this is the smartest way to make money, its the least taxed. They are simply playing the game the way it should be played. Rounding down, Romney made 3.6 million in dividends in 2011. Assuming normal rates of 40% and the subsidy rate of 15%, that is a subsidy of $900,000 to one individual!!!!!! He isn't a genius, that's what they are all doing. The idea of subsidizing the rich because it will trickle down has proven not to work.
^and that doesn't even address the abuse of capital gains rates which is where most of Romney's money comes from.
Social Security and Medicare. Two broken systems that were designed for americans, especially the working class. Average rich Joe from above pays the way by paying the tax on all of his annual income. Guess how much of that dividend income from above Romney pays medicare and social security on ... $0. Sure he won't need it so why should he have to pay in? Well following that theory, if it's designed to fail and I'm going to receive no money, I don't want to contribute either. Also, you don't even pay into these systems once your income passes the 106,000 range (too lazy to look up at this point) which has been adjusted very little with inflation throughout the years. I still don't understand that limit, especially with a growing economy and increased living age. I mean defined benefit plans were nearly the death of the auto industry and that is exactly what social security is ... with a very poor financial plan. Yes, this is a great place to say the government can't run the show, I'll agree there but it isn't obama. That is status quo for years back.
Once again, obamacare, where in this plan do you see the government controlling healthcare?
Do you really think there is enough room in the tax base to produce the type of revenues you could get by leveling the rates on wealthy america? You are saying there are enough people out of work that if you put them back to work they will pay in enough tax to cover what we could get by ending wealthy subsidies. How many people do you have to put back to work to get the 900,000 back in taxes you subsidized for Romney?
Last edited by KG's Supra24; 11-07-2012 at 04:16 PM.2006 Supra 24SSV
11-07-2012, 04:14 PM #33
I would support anyone that can show me a real plan for lowering taxes for all. nothing personal kane, but it pisses me off to no end that I pay and pay and pay into the govt and don't have kids for deductions and yet my neighbor that has 3 pays a MUCH lower tax rate because he has them, not to mention the fat refund at the end of the year he cashes and I do not.. I know, kids cost money, but that's a choice..
give me a progressive flat tax based on income and close all these stupid loopholes. imo, no one should ever get back thousands of $$ more than they pay in..
and the sad thing is that the more you make, the better tax man you can afford to make your liability go away.
democrat or republican I care not, show me the guy that can make that happen and he's my friend for life'06 Supra Launch 20SSV-gone but never forgotten
11-07-2012, 04:22 PM #34
11-07-2012, 05:02 PM #35
our entire political and governmental system needs a major overhaul. that would fix all the problems, but that's just a pipe dream as those that make their living off politics will NEVER let that day come..'06 Supra Launch 20SSV-gone but never forgotten
11-07-2012, 05:38 PM #36
Edit for disclosure: pulled the wrong dividend number earlier. Should be 2.2, not 3.6.
Last edited by KG's Supra24; 11-07-2012 at 05:42 PM.2006 Supra 24SSV
11-07-2012, 06:19 PM #37
Wow, you guys are tough! Why aren't all you Romney guys out buying new Mastercrafts (oh wait, Mittens has a Malibu), isn't that what rich people do? I'm never going to be rich, therefore I will continue to own Moombas and vote democratic.Brian Roberts
2001 Outback DD
11-07-2012, 07:09 PM #38
11-07-2012, 07:12 PM #39
I doubt that women in Cleveland owns a moomba... Lol
Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkA Day at the Lake...Priceless
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2012 Möbius XLV~ Loaded & Exiled
2007 Outback V ~ sold
11-07-2012, 07:29 PM #40
Can't beat Santa Claus.1998 Mobius
310 HP PCM