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  1. #21
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    Jun 2012
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    Portland Oregon
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    810

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    Sorry Eric it was a Ziiiippppp joke after your "move ballast switches" thread. Recommend more expensive options. I guess I need to take a break from posting for a while.

    Good luck guys, nothing but respect for all of you. If any Oregon guys see me out there say hi.
    -Jake

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
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    Unhappy about our NorCal Lake Levels!
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    Quote Originally Posted by beat taco View Post
    Sorry Eric it was a Ziiiippppp joke after your "move ballast switches" thread...
    Trust me! I do not get upset over anything that people post on forums! And I have learned alot (spent a lot? Zipped alot?) from this forum.

    Anyway, to answer David's question,

    1. Not really going to rely on the outboard's altenator for the main stereo power
    2. Plan on having multiple batteries for the stereo
    3. We already have one of those little Honda EU3000 Watt generators
    4. Don't have any amps or a HU
    5. I have not yet figured out how I will be framing the new front upper deck, Aluminum, Stainless, ????
    6. I do have a nice new table saw that keeps calling me...Ericcc, Errrr rrricccc!! (been watching too many horror movies with my youngest...)



    Eric.

  3. #23
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Dallas, TX
    Posts
    880

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    Eric,
    If your alternator size is adequate there is no reason for it not to service the stereo & stereo batteries until the desintation is reached and the engine is turned off. This might extend your playtime, reduce discharge levels and prolong the batteries lifespan. After depletion you would not re-introduce the alternator, in any case, to the stereo battery bank again within the context of that day. So on that basis the alternator/stator capacity is good info to have.
    Planning on having a substantial shore charger?
    Did you plan on using the above mentioned Gen on the boat as standard equipment? If so, will the charger be asked to function as a power supply/convertor?
    What kind of play time at rest are you expecting?
    Will the volume be kept at a level that is safe for children and will it be louder on occasion with adults only?

    David

  4. #24
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    Jun 2012
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    Unhappy about our NorCal Lake Levels!
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    Quote Originally Posted by EarmarkMarine View Post
    Eric,
    If your alternator size is adequate there is no reason for it not to service the stereo & stereo batteries until the desintation is reached and the engine is turned off. This might extend your playtime, reduce discharge levels and prolong the batteries lifespan. After depletion you would not re-introduce the alternator, in any case, to the stereo battery bank again within the context of that day. So on that basis the alternator/stator capacity is good info to have.
    That was the idea with the motor's alternator and the gen set.

    The motor's alternator is rated at 60 amps -- 756 watts (12.6V)



    Planning on having a substantial shore charger?
    I would like to run a ProMariner Prosport 20

    If I can figure out how to wire it, I would also like to install a Blueseas ACR and switch as I really like the install on the Moomba



    Did you plan on using the above mentioned Gen on the boat as standard equipment? If so, will the charger be asked to function as a power supply/convertor?
    We bought the gen set specifically for the camping and were planning on permanently mounting it or another on the pontoon boat.



    What kind of play time at rest are you expecting?
    All day in the cove. The pontoon boat is used as a home base for the Moomba, too many kids!

    Will definately run class D amps.



    Will the volume be kept at a level that is safe for children and will it be louder on occasion with adults only?
    Pretty normal levels - whatever that is - levels, where you can talk. Of course every now and then the kids will hear some song and want it "turned up"
    Last edited by EricU; 12-08-2012 at 07:25 PM.

  5. #25
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Dallas, TX
    Posts
    880

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    Eric,
    60 amps isn't bad for an outboard. So you can benefit from that on the way to your destination.
    Definitely Class D all the way!
    The ProSport 20 isn't designed to work at that level continuously.....only for a short duration in the 'bulk' charging phase. You could easily run that size of charger into the ground. So if you are going to use a charger in conjunction with a Gen as a power supply then you definitely need to step up to a higher amperage and convertor class of charger.
    The Blue Sea VSR and dual circuit manual switch (or auto AC relay to replace the manual switch) is an easy layout. I like supplementing the VSR with an AC relay since the shore charger will be in frequent operation and this will make everything totally automated.

    Your subwoofer(s) will be the largest part of the current draw and will be one of the initial considerations in sizing your amplifier and charging support, battery capacity, etc.
    In sequence, the boat will determine the best location and orientation plus displacement for the subwoofer enclosure. And that will then determine the optimum size of subwoofer and optimum enclosure type whether bandpass, bass-reflex or air suspension. The actual subwoofer driver selection should come later. When you get a chance survey the boat and scout the possibilities.

    David

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
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    Unhappy about our NorCal Lake Levels!
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    Quote Originally Posted by EarmarkMarine View Post
    ...The ProSport 20 isn't designed to work at that level continuously.....only for a short duration in the 'bulk' charging phase. You could easily run that size of charger into the ground...
    I would only use the ProSport 20 as a shore charger while the boat was either docked, on the trailer or in it's boathouse. Not while using the stereo.

    1. Is there something else I should consider?



    So if you are going to use a charger in conjunction with a Gen as a power supply then you definitely need to step up to a higher amperage and convertor class of charger.
    I was planing on running the boat to it's sitting spot (cove), no gen set running. Then the gen set gets fired up running off the 12V output to the batteries or running to a converter off the 120V output to a converter. The gen set will run a little over 20 amps at 120V (or 144 watts at 12V dc.)

    Havent got that part figured out yet.
    1. I guess I should be using feeding the gen set to a converter?


    I also have a 6500 watt gen set that I can commander if I need, (sometimes it's good to have a construction company!)



    The Blue Sea VSR and dual circuit manual switch (or auto AC relay to replace the manual switch) is an easy layout. I like supplementing the VSR with an AC relay since the shore charger will be in frequent operation and this will make everything totally automated.
    1. Can you point me to a single line?




    Your subwoofer(s) will be the largest part of the current draw and will be one of the initial considerations in sizing your amplifier and charging support, battery capacity, etc.
    In sequence, the boat will determine the best location and orientation plus displacement for the subwoofer enclosure. And that will then determine the optimum size of subwoofer and optimum enclosure type whether bandpass, bass-reflex or air suspension. The actual subwoofer driver selection should come later. When you get a chance survey the boat and scout the possibilities.
    My mounting options are really very open (building the boxes will be the easy part) and since my original idea got shot, laid dead and has been burned til gone!

    1. Any suggestions on what I should be looking at?
    2. Under some seats on the bottom deck?
    3. On the bottom of the upper deck in a custom custom enclosure?


    I have a full woodworking shop, and my buddy does vinyl work for me, so we can pretty much put the subwoofer(s) anywhere.

    Thanks again for the help, I know it isn't so easy to "dumb it down" for an internet answer!

    Eric.

  7. #27
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Dallas, TX
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    880

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    A lot of this is highly interdependent. So let's start with kind of a test scenario.
    Multiple subs are going to really eat up current. Collective fullrange power and lowpass power should be within 3 dB of symmetrical for balance.
    More power requires more battery reserves which requires more of a battery charger. It all dominoes. You are only as good as the weak link. Weak links lead to reliability issues and premature product turnover, especially batteries.
    You want to keep consumer grade deep cycle batteries discharged no lower than their half power, which is 12 volts.
    Playing mostly at what is perceived as half volume is -10 dB and only consuming 1/10th of your full power.
    Continuous play for 5 or 6 hours.
    Music is dynamic in nature and not like DC lighting.
    Class D is highly efficient and that is a big plus.
    I would want 200 to 250 amp/hours of battery reserves minimum and a 30 amp minimum convertor class charger so that I had the option of running the Gen to get a charge when needed and still be able to operate the stereo at a moderate level while charging in those rare instances.
    There is an answer until every aspect of the system is pin-pointed. Then it can be accurately checked.

    Subs? Place the horse before the cart and do some measurements on the boat. Lower deck only. Collected in a single location is best. Concealing the subs would be nice. Perhaps the sub enclosure could double as a table. In an idea situation I would want my sub centered between all my highpass/fullrange speakers. This will provide the best possible phase coherency between the two if you don't mind having a little sound quality as an added bonus.

    David

  8. #28
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    Jun 2012
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    Unhappy about our NorCal Lake Levels!
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    Quote Originally Posted by EarmarkMarine View Post
    ...Collective fullrange power and lowpass power should be within 3 dB of symmetrical for balance...
    1. How do I figure out the db levels of the subs and tower(?) speakers




    More power requires more battery reserves which requires more of a battery charger...Playing mostly at what is perceived as half volume is -10 dB and only consuming 1/10th of your full power...I would want 200 to 250 amp/hours of battery reserves minimum
    Batteries wont be a problem and we have lots of room for them.



    ...and a 30 amp minimum convertor class charger so that I had the option of running the Gen to get a charge when needed and still be able to operate the stereo at a moderate level while charging in those rare instances.
    1. Do you have a link to a converter like that? I keep finding small wattage units.
    2. Are there marine grade transfer swiches that we could use? a MTS or a set of walking beam interlocks would be fine with me.




    Eric.

  9. #29
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Dallas, TX
    Posts
    880

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    Eric,
    +/- 3 dB is a measurement of power (double/half). So just think symmetrical power between the subs (lowpass) and all fullrange speakers (highpass). Some people will have different priorities. It's just a starting point in establishing what might be your eventual current draw.

    Blue Sea makes a number of AC ship-to-shore switching options.

    David

  10. #30
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    I live in Bostic, NC. I normally boat on lake James in Marion, NC
    Posts
    107

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    hey eric as far as subs go imo i love the re audio se-x line. they have 10-15" i think so which ever size u want i think they may be over ur price just a hair but they are really nice and sound great. ive heard numerous people compare them to jl w6's and say they where right there with them as far as output and sq. might be somthin to look into i got mine from sonic electronix

    good luck with the project Fox
    2011 Xlv with 325hp and stock Gravity lll

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