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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
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    Marquette, Michigan
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    81

    Default RCA wiring my new amp.

    I just got my new Exile Javelin 5 channel amp to power my cabin speakers and Sub. I also have an Exile Harpoon amp powering two XM9 tower speakers. Everything is run through an Exile Zone Line Driver.

    Here is my question. I have one RCA output that comes from my ZLD for my cabin speakers and one for my Sub. The Exile has 3 RCA inputs: Front, rear, Sub. Can I use a "Y" splitter to send the signal to both inputs? Will this cause any signal loss, or is there any other reason NOT to do this?

    Right now I have the switch on the sub set so that it only needs a single input for all 3, which works fine but that makes my sub frequency and level knobs on my ZLD useless.
    2013 Moomba Mojo 2.5

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Pacific NW USA
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    513

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    In your configuration use y cable on front and rear it puts to the javelin.
    Loosing voltage is a non issue. Especially with a zld feeding the amp.

    Make sure your cabin is set to Highpass at 110 hz and you good to go.

    -Brian

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
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    Marquette, Michigan
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    81

    Default RCA wiring my new amp.

    Cool. Thanks Brian. Roughly where is 110 htz on the dial? Maybe noon? 1 o'clock?

    Also, keeping in mind it can be adjusted on the ZLD, where should the sub LPF be set? 80? And what about the bass boost?
    2013 Moomba Mojo 2.5

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
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    Lake Wylie NC Area
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    858

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    Quote Originally Posted by yooper View Post
    Cool. Thanks Brian. Roughly where is 110 htz on the dial? Maybe noon? 1 o'clock?

    Also, keeping in mind it can be adjusted on the ZLD, where should the sub LPF be set? 80? And what about the bass boost?
    Yooper,

    What you adjust on the face of the EQ is not at all the same as setting the cross-over on the amp. The EQ is a means to boost or reduce those 4 preset frequencies. The cross-over filter and frequency setting on the amp, is about setting the H-Pass floor for full-range speakers, or the low-pass ceiling for sub-woofers. Just keep in mind that this is no hard dead set come to a stop setting, but rather a point at which the amp begins to taper off/reduce the level of the frequencies below/above that set point. Its called roll-off and the degree of roll-off is different with each amp. Some are steeper (quicker) while some are slower (more gradual), kinda like the steepness or rampyness of a wake.

    IMO, 110 Hz is WAY to high for a fill-range in-boat, especially if the in-boats are accompanied by a sub. That Hz or a little higher is perfect for a 6.5" full-range on a tower, but not in an in-boat application.

    There was some tuning advice given in a recent thread = 110hz hi-pass for the full-range in-boats and 60hz low-pass for the sub. As noted, way to high for the in-boat and thats also way to low for the sub, and hear (yes, hear) is why. Those recommended settings have left about a 40 Hz gap in audible program material, when some roll-off is factored in. Thats a ton of music thats being tossed out the window.

    Even further, that 60hz on the sub's low-pass ceiling, greatly narrowed the bandwidth that the sub has to operate in. This makes for a peaky one note wonder of a sub. The subs cross-over needs to be based on the sub, its size, the enclosure and the in-boats.

    There are no arbitrary frequencies, but rather a starting point to begin the fine tuning and a window that we hope to stay in, where the speaker is comfortable operating. This is based on the size and type of speaker, application and amount of power its being driven with. For an in-boats set up with a sub, the goal is to have a seamless transition from sub to full-range. And again, those 4 EQ settings are completely independent of the initial amp settings, so put them as zero/flat to start with.

    Start with BASS-BOOST at zero. I rarely like to use it. With out knowing anything about your sub and enclosure and without knowing if the amp has a fixed boost Hz or adjustable, its hard to suggest adding any.

  5. #5

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    MLA (Mike),
    You are spot on and make a very good point about gapping the crossovers with such a wide span. Most think in terms of amplitude but there is another major issue in the way of phase. With every filter, whether highpass or lowpass, there is a phase rotation. Not like an abrupt polarity change but more of a gradual rotation just like the filter amplitude function is gradual. Ideally you would want a condensed crossover span in order to obtain the most coherent phase relationship between the sub and satellites. Typically a symmetrical crossover frequency is better. This is important so that the subwoofer doesn't sound remote or detached. Its also important for good bass tonal construction.
    I realize there is often a desire to keep the issue basic, easy to understand, and easy to implement. However, a simple tuning prescription based on a fixed frequency leaves a great deal of sonic performance behind.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    De Pere WI
    Posts
    4,226

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    not to spark up a debate but more a learning.. and remembering that each system is specific to the drivers/amps/wiring/etc so this is not a "one size" statement:
    I seem to remember for years from my car audio days that high pass was best started at 110hz as the rolloff would extend down and subs were best at between 80-90 and again, due to rolloff, would be a smooth transition. again, just starting points and every system is different but good guidelines.

    thoughts?
    '06 Supra Launch 20SSV-gone but never forgotten

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by sandm View Post
    not to spark up a debate but more a learning.. and remembering that each system is specific to the drivers/amps/wiring/etc so this is not a "one size" statement:
    I seem to remember for years from my car audio days that high pass was best started at 110hz as the rolloff would extend down and subs were best at between 80-90 and again, due to rolloff, would be a smooth transition. again, just starting points and every system is different but good guidelines.

    thoughts?
    True. It's not a one size fits all. Even the coaxial mounting structure and location in a given boat can have a large impact on the final crossover selection. Precise tuning is a matter of following a set prescription and not using a set of fixed numbers.

    I've always looked at tuning an open field boat very differently than the enclosed cabin of a car, truck or SUV. To begin with the inherent response of the environments is radically different. Most never grasp this transition.

    Yet, a symmetrical crossover point is always important in either case if the goal is sound quality and bass with tight pitch accuracy. Now the bass head with a system that is defined by bass may separate the high and low pass filters so that the - 3 dB point is roughly at the same frequency for both. But that is an entirely different goal that casts off sound quality from the onset. You just can't have coherency when you expand the affected crossover region.
    It's one of the fundamentals that apply to all systems in all environments. For example, when a home theater guy adds a mondo subwoofer to his tower speakers he might not use a highpass crossover on the towers or he may not plug up the ports on his tower speakers. With a bass-reflex sub, bass-reflex tower speaker, and no highpass filter on the towers he essentially has four different phase responses overlapping in a wide region. He knows the bass sounds terribly unmusical, especially on music, and every misdiagnosis follows except for the real problem.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Marquette, Michigan
    Posts
    81

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    WHOA. Excellent analysis! So, if anyone wants to jump in with some crossover suggestions, here are the components I'm using:

    Exile ZLD: http://exileaudio.com/store/index.ph...er-preamp.html
    Exile 5 channel amp: http://exileaudio.com/store/index.ph...1/javelin.html
    6 Polk 6.5" speakers: http://www.polkaudio.com/products/mm651 (these speakers are 2.7 ohm, for what it's worth)
    1 12" Alpine R-type sub in a .85cf sealed box, wired at 2 ohm, driven by the sub channel of the Exile amp : http://www.crutchfield.com/S-hdZiYP9...=DST&XVVER=CCC
    2013 Moomba Mojo 2.5

  9. #9

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    Hmmm. A 1.33 ohm load on two of the amplifier channels is not good. Instead try the Polk MM651UM that is 4-ohm and has a continuous cone for more midbass performance. Or, look at the JL Audio MX650 which is the best 6.5" coaxial I have heard by a good margin.
    Alpine makes a good sub. But 0.85 cu.ft. is really small for a 12". Before building that box I would find out what the 'Qtc' is (damping at resonance in the box), what the Fc is (new and higher resonance in the box), and what the F3 is, (roll-off point of half power in the box). For example, knowing the system 'Q' of the woofer in the box will forecast how the box will sound before you trial and error. This is part of the normal system set-up. Tuning and crossover selection shouldn't have to repair major flaws.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Marquette, Michigan
    Posts
    81

    Default

    Actually, I was a little off on the sealed box volume. Alpine says the IDEAL sealed volume is .85. The box I have is very close to that.... .91

    As for the Ohm rating on the speakers, I spoke to Brian from Exile on the phone and was VERY clear as to which speakers I had, and specifically talked about the lower than usual ohm rating. He assured me that the Javelin amp could run 6 of those speakers "no problem" and if I had 8, it would do that too, with no overheating or instability issues at all.

    Everything is installed and sounds pretty good. I'm just trying to fine tune.

    This is the actual box, by the way: http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_...2SA-12-SA.html
    2013 Moomba Mojo 2.5

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