Tazz,Originally Posted by tazz3069
Thanks. I stuck my head in the ski locker and looked toward's the driver's side and was able to see inside the ski locker. There are no obstructions that would prevent installation of the 10" sub but you are right - it certainly is not boxed in.
That enclosure looks good. Coul you have set it on top of the kick panel? Would there have been room?
So what makes a sub a "free air sub"? That is, how is it different than a regular sub?
Thanks for the pics. Looks good.
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Thread: Subwoofer Placement Question
03-18-2008, 12:12 AM #11Al
2006 Mobius LSV
03-18-2008, 12:45 AM #12
03-18-2008, 12:52 AM #13
Yes I could have placed it on top of the foot rest. I felt that it would fit better where I had placed it. The only thing is that you need to support it somehow from the back side.Tazz 07' Moomba LSV --Kicker Marine Amps (MX700.5 & MX350.4) 6 polk DB651 speakers, 4 MB Quartz Marine Speakers, 10" Boston Acoustic Sub, Z-5 Cargo Rack, Custom Speaker/Light Bar, modified ballast system, Custom LED Rings
Live life to the extreme and no less!!
03-18-2008, 01:39 PM #14
I sent you some pics of mine. I wish I could figure out how to put a pic on my profile now....
03-24-2008, 10:28 PM #15
Yeah, I didn't think that panel was boxed in, mine is just flat, and the screws might be buried under that carpet, I am not sure, since mine is older, but that panel has to come out somehow. Climb under it from the bow seat up front and see if you can see anything from there. I know its a tight fit, but at least get a flashlight and your head under there. There might be some L brackets that need to be unscrewed to get the panel off. As far as free air subs, I think they also call them infinite baffle subs, or something like that, and in my opinion, they should rarely, if ever, be used. To create low frequency notes requires air movement. If you have ever held your hand over a sub box port while it is playing, you know what I am talking about. The key to clean, tight, bass notes is controling the amount of air moved over a given time interval, which is done by controlling the excursion of the subwoofer (how far in and out the speaker travels). If you have ever read the specs for a subwoofer, they list the size of enclosure required in volume or cubic feet. If it is a sealed enclosure for a 10" might be around 0.5ft3. For a ported enclosure it might be 1.0ft3, and it will also specify the diameter and the length of the port to be put in the box. This stuff is not guesswork. These specs are listed because that is the optimal setup for that particular sub. If you do not follow those reccommended specs, you can ruin the sub. For example, if you make the box too big (too much volume) the excursion of the speaker will exceed the designed limit and you will destroy the speaker, not to mention it will sound like crap. Also, each sub manufacturer makes their subs differently, designed for different enclosures. What this means is that Audioformz enclosure look nice, but you have to make sure that the enclosure size is within the range of the manufacturer. Now keep in mind the speaker has volume too, you will have to subtract the speaker volume from the sub box volume to get an accurate measurement. You can find the subs requirements and displacement volume in the instructions or on their website.
For an example, I have the spec sheet for the sub I took out of my boat (not loud enough) in front of me:
JL Audio 8W1-4 (8" sub, 4 ohms)
Reccommended enclosure: sealed 0.30ft3 (net internal volumes)
ported 0.75ft3 w/ a 2.5"i.d. x12.4" long port
speaker displacement: 0.025ft3
Now I believe that the only way to get a proper speaker enclosure is to build one to fit, I know that not everyone has the tools to do this, especially for a boat. So I would suggest first getting the specs for the speaker and then looking online at places like Crutchfield or Parts Express to find the best box to use and order that one. But remember, DO NOT sit it on the floor of the boat. These boxes are almost always made from MDF (medium density fiberboard) which is basically paper, so you have to raise it up off the floor to keep it dry or it will soak up water and puff up and come apart. That is the good thing about the Audioformz one, it looks to be ABS plastic or fiberglass. I just hope that it has thick walls. The reason they use MDF to build those boxes is beacuse it is very dense and rigid. If you have a flimsy box, the box will flex when the sound waves hit it and it will oscilate at the same frequency as the sound waves, just in the opposite direction, and what happens? The sound waves cancel each other out so your sound is diminished. Last, but not least, as I mentioned before, you must "load" the sub. It needs to be firing towards something dense, that will not oscilate very much,a nd close to it, like two or three inches away. The serves that same purpose that the box size does to control the excusion of the woofer as well as give the sound waves something to bounce off of and radiate into the boat. Also, a lot of low frequencies are felt more than heard, that means the sub needs something to transfer the sound enegy into.
I apologize for writing a book you guys, but I don't want to see you guys unhappy with your set up, or embarrassed out on the lake. I have a buddy with a 2006 Wakesetter VLX (man it throws a sick wake) and he has (4) 12" subs in that boat that were supposedly "professionally installed" and a pretty big amp pushing them, although I admit to not knowing how many watts of power. And to be perfectly honest, my one 10" sub in a sealed box that my buddy and I made, with only 150 watts of power to it, is louder than, and sounds much cleaner than, his four 12". And he lost a TON of storage space to fit those damn things in there. I am not trying to brag about my setup, I just want to illustrate how important it is to research and think and make good decisions when spending money like this. If it is worth doing, it is worth doing right. Good luck. Let me know if you have any more questions (although I am by no means an audio expert, I am just good at reading and following instructions).
03-25-2008, 12:01 AM #16
In regards to my sub encloser, it is an AudioFormz box. It is made out of fiberglass. I had to stuff the encloser with speaker stuffing (white cotton stuff). It took me a while to tune it in. First I put in way too much then too little. After several tries, I finally found the right combo. It does take alot of patience and a good ear for the bass. I am very happy with the performance.
As for your buddy with the 4-12" sub, I had a friend just like that. Paid a grip of money for a custom set-up. Went to the lake and it sounds like crap. he said that it sounded good in the shop. He never heard it out side the shop. I pulled mine out of the garage and had a listen. Like I said, I am very happy. I have heard the system with the free air sub. I really do not think that it gives you the hit out of an enclosed box. Now my box is not ported. It is solid thick fiberglass.Tazz 07' Moomba LSV --Kicker Marine Amps (MX700.5 & MX350.4) 6 polk DB651 speakers, 4 MB Quartz Marine Speakers, 10" Boston Acoustic Sub, Z-5 Cargo Rack, Custom Speaker/Light Bar, modified ballast system, Custom LED Rings
Live life to the extreme and no less!!
03-25-2008, 02:38 AM #17Senior Member
- Join Date
- Oct 2005
- Central FL
Let's see if I can help...
"Speakers" are a system of drivers (the thing with the cone and the magnet), crossovers, and enclosures.
Free-air drivers are able to produce lower frequencies, but with lower power required, but do not deliver high SPLs. (english: lower bass, but quieter)
Infinite baffle boxes are boxes without a box. A plank of wood is an infinte baffle box - thus the need for free-air drivers.
Sealed enclosures always produce the tighest base since they enhance the drivers built-in "rubber band" factor that keeps it snapping back. However getting the lowest frequencies is very difficult. (english: tighter, punchier, bust not as low bass)
Ported enclosures create a larger volume box, but with a loss of some punch - can create low frequencies, and still pack it with some force. (english: excellent mix of all frequencies - but very difficult to build well and tune)
Band-pass boxes are a sealed box inside a ported box. (english: amazing bass, but get a degree or a geek with good software to build it so it sounds right)
Adding "fluff" increases the drivers appearant box volume (inverse of what you would think) up to a point but with a slight damping factor as well - and never use cotton batting - use polly fill. cotton whisps + wood + electicity can be a bad thing. (english: see "Fire")
If it were as easy as throwing a speaker in a cube of wood, there would be no reason to ever ask a single question. It is not pop tarts.
Ask lots !
Hope this helps,
03-25-2008, 09:22 AM #18Reese350 Guest
Thanks for the input, it is useful for me as well. I also have a 2006 LSV and just bought the JL 10" marine sub that I need to install before the ice thaws in MI.
On a different note, I notice a couple of you guys are in OR. I live in MI but I work in Lake Oswego, OR quite often and may even relocate. One of my biggest hangups about moving out is the waterskiing situation. I've grown up on lakes and I'm not to keen on rivers.
Where do you guys ski/board, how crowded is it, and how warm does the water get?
03-25-2008, 09:48 AM #19
it is the poly fill that I used. I ordered it from crutchfield.com when I ordered my speakers(Polk Audio)Tazz 07' Moomba LSV --Kicker Marine Amps (MX700.5 & MX350.4) 6 polk DB651 speakers, 4 MB Quartz Marine Speakers, 10" Boston Acoustic Sub, Z-5 Cargo Rack, Custom Speaker/Light Bar, modified ballast system, Custom LED Rings
Live life to the extreme and no less!!
03-25-2008, 10:21 AM #20
Spot on Joe. And since free air subs are not designed to work in a specific controlled volume, the design of them limits the excursion of the woofer, which limits sound. So it would take lots more power to a free air sub to get colse to the sound of a sealed or ported box. Of course given too much power, the sub will again tear itself apart.
Oh and one more thing about my buddy's Bu, he spent some money, his tower seakers are 4 wetsounds pro 80's, but his sub amp there is something up with it. He can only play it loud for like 5 or 10 minutes and his amp overheats and shuts down. His solution? Turn off the stereo, wrap a bag of ice in a towel and lay it on the amp. His amp and subs must be wired where the ohm load is way to low for that amp and he is burning it up. Oh well, more money than brains club...
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