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  1. #21
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Birmingham
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    1,166

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    Quote Originally Posted by etang789 View Post
    What do you mean by lake testing it? If it works the same as the Orbit valves everything should be fine no?

    Im trusting you guys on this Im ordering these valves and shipping them all the way to Hong Kong!
    Wow, I am surprised that you had them sent that far!!! Tazz is right, none of these valves we have been discussing have been tested in the water. I am hoping that the low pressure of simply driving the boat does not start some type of syphon effect where you can not stop the ballast from filling. I have only tested my valves in the driveway on a make shift saw horse test. What size pump are you running, the volume and pressure of your pump may not be enough to open these types of valves. I had excellent results with a 2000gph pump in the driveway, but again, this has not been tested on the lake.

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Hong Kong
    Posts
    61

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    Quote Originally Posted by JesseC View Post
    Wow, I am surprised that you had them sent that far!!! Tazz is right, none of these valves we have been discussing have been tested in the water. I am hoping that the low pressure of simply driving the boat does not start some type of syphon effect where you can not stop the ballast from filling. I have only tested my valves in the driveway on a make shift saw horse test. What size pump are you running, the volume and pressure of your pump may not be enough to open these types of valves. I had excellent results with a 2000gph pump in the driveway, but again, this has not been tested on the lake.
    I am still using the stock pump which ever came in the boat with...

    Oh you mean you are not sure if these valves may not stop the ballast from filling itself when driving the boat around? I never cared about fixing this problem (I have this problem since I got the boat new with the working Orbit valves, hint now all orbit valves are broken)...I simply just shut off the main intake valve...

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Las Vegas, Nevada
    Posts
    1,582

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    My pumps were only two years old. I got tired of how long it took to fill the tanks. That is why I decided to change out the system. Great boat, just the ballast system is for the birds.
    Tazz 07' Moomba LSV --Kicker Marine Amps (MX700.5 & MX350.4) 6 polk DB651 speakers, 4 MB Quartz Marine Speakers, 10" Boston Acoustic Sub, Z-5 Cargo Rack, Custom Speaker/Light Bar, modified ballast system, Custom LED Rings
    Live life to the extreme and no less!!

  4. #24

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    Sorry I didn't see this thread earlier, I think I may have some beneficial information to add.

    Yes, the '09 Moomba system uses one Jabsco Ballast Puppy pump for each bag. One of the advantages of impeller style pumps like the Jabsco is that they perform as a check valve, in that they will not allow water to flow past the impeller when the pump is not on. There are numerous disadvantages with reversible impeller pumps too though, so those must be taken into consideration.

    If you are committed to keeping the sprinkler valve manifold system the factory uses, you need to upgrade to quarter turn solenoid valves if you really want to improve the fill time. The 3/4" hose used by the factory has a theoretical maximum flow of 2160GPH, while the diaphragm valves used by the factory only support ~400GPH. Filling a 400 pound bag will take at least 7.5 minutes if all other aspects of the flow path are ideal, which they are not.

    The only reason to keep the valve manifold design is if you're going to use 1 fill pump for all of the bags. The way the factory setup the system prior to '09 allowed that one fill pump to fill each bag individually, but sacrificed a lot of speed.

    If you're already switched to a one fill pump per bag system design, ditch the valves, and remove the added cost, complexity and restriction they introduce into the system. Install a vented loop into the fill line where the valves were and your problem of the bags filling while running will disappear.

    Let me know if anything I've written is unclear, or if you have any other questions.

    Jason
    WakeMAKERS | WakePROPS | WakeSOUNDS | EasyBoatCare

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Las Vegas, Nevada
    Posts
    1,582

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    Jason
    I have already ripped out the Sprinkler Valve system. I agree it is junk. I now have 3 Tsunami 1200GPH pumps. Your post interest me. Can you make a diagram of what you mean. At this point, I am willing to try anything. So far my second Lake Test Failed miserably. I would like to make the third time the charm. Tanks in advance.

    Mark
    Tazz 07' Moomba LSV --Kicker Marine Amps (MX700.5 & MX350.4) 6 polk DB651 speakers, 4 MB Quartz Marine Speakers, 10" Boston Acoustic Sub, Z-5 Cargo Rack, Custom Speaker/Light Bar, modified ballast system, Custom LED Rings
    Live life to the extreme and no less!!

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Birmingham
    Posts
    1,166

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    Quote Originally Posted by jasonwm View Post
    Install a vented loop into the fill line where the valves were and your problem of the bags filling while running will disappear.Jason

    Could you explain what you mean by a vented loop? What exatly is it and how does it get installed?

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Las Vegas, Nevada
    Posts
    1,582

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    I called him this morning about his system. Have not heard anything yet.
    Tazz 07' Moomba LSV --Kicker Marine Amps (MX700.5 & MX350.4) 6 polk DB651 speakers, 4 MB Quartz Marine Speakers, 10" Boston Acoustic Sub, Z-5 Cargo Rack, Custom Speaker/Light Bar, modified ballast system, Custom LED Rings
    Live life to the extreme and no less!!

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    10

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    I am Tazz' Brother in law. He heard back from Jason this morning. It appears the vented loop will work only for isolated bags. This will require a separate pump for each bag. Otherwise the bags will equalize the water between them. The vented loop will solve Tazz' issue because he already uprgraded to the three separate pumps.

    If you don't want to go to a three pump system the other option is to install 1/4 turn electric solenoid controlled ball valves. This replaces the sprinkler valve in the manifold and will eliminate the restriction caused by the valves Skiers Choice chose to use. Jason is working on a reliable source for these valves to sell from his website.

    All this is outlined on Jason's website.

  9. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by JesseC View Post
    Could you explain what you mean by a vented loop? What exatly is it and how does it get installed?
    A vented loop is a fitting used in plumbing applications to prevent unintended flow through (or to allow sewer gasses to pass through a drain depending on the application). For our needs, it serves the first purpose. It's basically just a "U" shaped fitting with a vent in the top that is installed in series with the fill line from the pump to the bag or tank.

    They are available through a number of sources, feel free to contact me if you need help sourcing one.

    Quote Originally Posted by tazz3069 View Post
    I called him this morning about his system. Have not heard anything yet.
    It was great to talk with you this morning Mark, let me know how the third test goes, it will be nice to have a correctly functioning system that is quick.

    Quote Originally Posted by dapjeff View Post
    I am Tazz' Brother in law. He heard back from Jason this morning. It appears the vented loop will work only for isolated bags. This will require a separate pump for each bag. Otherwise the bags will equalize the water between them. The vented loop will solve Tazz' issue because he already uprgraded to the three separate pumps.

    If you don't want to go to a three pump system the other option is to install 1/4 turn electric solenoid controlled ball valves. This replaces the sprinkler valve in the manifold and will eliminate the restriction caused by the valves Skiers Choice chose to use. Jason is working on a reliable source for these valves to sell from his website.

    All this is outlined on Jason's website.
    Great summary of the functionality of the vented loop Jeff. I will make one small clarification, and that is to say that a vented loop will function fine regardless of whether or not you are using one pump to fill or 12. It will not however replace some type of valve network to distribute the water from that one pump out to each bag, so unless you're willing to either fill all of the ballast on your boat or none of it, you'll need some type of valves.

    I am a huge proponent of replacing the sprinkler valve manifold with three individual pumps (and apparently so is Skier's Choice based on the '09 boats) as Mark has done. It's less complicated, cheaper and faster, with really no down sides.

    Let me know how it goes when you get a chance to test the new setup!
    WakeMAKERS | WakePROPS | WakeSOUNDS | EasyBoatCare

  10. #30
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Land O Lakes, Florida
    Posts
    5,908

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    Quote Originally Posted by jasonwm View Post
    you need to upgrade to quarter turn solenoid valves if you really want to improve the fill time. Jason
    Jason, tell me more about these quarter turn solenoid valve's, Ive done a lot of upgrades to my 08 system and feel it can still be faster.

    Stacy
    Hey, Its Moomba time

    13 Mobius LSV
    08 Mobius LSV-sold
    03 Mobius LSV-sold
    life is about finding the balance between being a responsible adult and staying young at heart

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