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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Jacksonville Fl
    Posts
    30

    Default multi pump ballast issue.

    Hello Everyone. I have an issue that I hope someone can assist with. I have an 07 LSV with 750s in the back, the ski locker sack and the bow sack as well. I converted to 4 pumps on a single manifold that is using the existing 1" intake.

    Fill times are great compared to before (15min vs 32min) however if I am not filling all the bags at once the system gives me problems. For instance if I want to stop filling center ski locker bag (because it fills first and pushes the locker door open) but continue to fill the rest then air starts back feeding from the center sack causing the other sacks to stop filling or fill uneven at best.

    This becomes a real issue if I want to put more water in one of the back sacks then the other to offset the weight of the driver etc. I could easily fix the issue with a check valve but that would cause a restriction and slow the fill down which would make all the work I did a waste.

    The manifold is on the bottom of the hull and it doesnt change even after the rear are very full which drops the boat several inches into the water so I no the pumps are below the water line. Is anyone else experiencing this and if so what is the fix. Thanks in advance.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Las Vegas, Nevada
    Posts
    1,582

    Default

    Diver
    First of all welcome to the Moomba Family.
    Now for your situation. First, the intake Scupper is not a 1" It has a 1"O.D. with a 3/4" I.D.
    Now correct me if I am wrong. You are saying, while all bags are filling at once, everything fills fine. But when you shut off any bag, the fill slows down. It does not make sense. Your fill time should increase as you shut off each valve. Not sure what the problem is. So there is one pump and 4 valves. Or as you stated, 4 pumps with the existing 3 valves.
    Wow. Kind of stumped right now. Let me think. I now, with my system, I removed the sprinkler valves and single pump and replaced it with 3 individual pumps and no valves. I hated those things. Very fast fill. Please explain exactly what you did.

    Tazz
    Tazz 07' Moomba LSV --Kicker Marine Amps (MX700.5 & MX350.4) 6 polk DB651 speakers, 4 MB Quartz Marine Speakers, 10" Boston Acoustic Sub, Z-5 Cargo Rack, Custom Speaker/Light Bar, modified ballast system, Custom LED Rings
    Live life to the extreme and no less!!

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    London Ontario Canada
    Posts
    1,840

    Default

    are you sucking air from the bag you shut off, thru the shutoff pump as the fill hose is on the top of the bag. and these may be closer to the scupper. put a simple plastic ball valve in the forward sacs that can close when needed, they are cheap and should not slowdown the fill rate

    you have a 1 to 4 manifold with a 4 pumps , one to each bag, when you shut one off because you have so much suction from the other 3 or 2 they are going to suck from the other bags unless there is something to stop them. is that your setup?
    Last edited by DOCDRS; 12-06-2009 at 10:16 PM.
    09 21v LAUNCH

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  4. #4
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Jacksonville Fl
    Posts
    30

    Default

    Hello Tazz,

    Thanks for your feedback. I have no valves, just 4 tsunami 800 pumps all on one manifold that I built from brass fittings from Lowes. I pretty much followed what FMan did from this post.

    http://moomba.com/msgboard/showthrea...hlight=tsunami.

    My manifold is on the hull like his as well so it is as low as it can be. Only difference would be the fourth pump for the bow sack.

    My hoses are the same as his. They are clear so I can see through them. When I shut one pump off the other hoses will begin to get air pockets in them. I can see the air bubbles moving through them until it gets to the point that there is more air then water. Once that occurs I can unhook the hose from the bag and confirm nothing is comming out. Really is a strange occurance.

    The one other possible difference which I cant confirm would be the direction of the valve. In Fman's pictures it looks like his manifold may be runing from front to back where mine is in the center of the hull runing from side to side. This means that I have an elbow before the pumps instead of a straight shot like his. It also means that any air that might be in the manifold could act differently.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Jacksonville Fl
    Posts
    30

    Default

    Doc,
    I do believe it is sucking air from the bags that are shut off but it will happen even if I just have one pump turned on. I believe the check valves will work but the only valves I have seen are somewhat restrictive. I tested the valves that I used for the vent tubes and they were somewhat restrictive. I am curious if anyone else has made this modification and experienced similar issues.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Land O Lakes, Florida
    Posts
    5,851

    Default

    Diver, I believe I have the same system to fill as you do, 4 tsunami 800 pump with the factory thruhull. I have not noticed what you are talking about but im normally moving when filling also--about 12 mph. Now I could be having the same problem and dont see it as im still using the black hose and haveing noticed the bubble's.
    Hey, Its Moomba time

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  7. #7
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Jacksonville Fl
    Posts
    30

    Default

    I have not tried filling while driving yet. I did the install on my lift so once I was finished I just dropped it down and tested the system while the boat was stationary.

    If you were having the same issue you would likely notice even if you couldnt see into the lines because the bags would fill unevenly. For istance one of the times I shut off the front bags the right rear kept filling and the left rear stopped so the right rear was completely full and the left was only 3/4.

    Im afraid my only option is to either add the valves or add another intake and run two off of each intake. That would probably be enough volume to keep it from drawing air back in through the bags. Is your manifold running front to back or side to side.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Land O Lakes, Florida
    Posts
    5,851

    Default

    sorry about this but I just remembered that I also put one way inline valves on after the pumps so that when Im done filling the 2 smaller bags and still filling the surf bag that the pumps dont drain the 2 smaller bags.
    Hey, Its Moomba time

    13 Mobius LSV
    08 Mobius LSV-sold
    03 Mobius LSV-sold
    life is about finding the balance between being a responsible adult and staying young at heart

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Jacksonville Fl
    Posts
    30

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by moombadaze View Post
    sorry about this but I just remembered that I also put one way inline valves on after the pumps so that when Im done filling the 2 smaller bags and still filling the surf bag that the pumps dont drain the 2 smaller bags.
    Did this take care of it completely. For instance, if I want to just fill one of the rear bags will that work or will I have to fill them together then drain one some since the one way valves are only on the front bags.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Land O Lakes, Florida
    Posts
    5,851

    Default

    What I have is, 2 of the pumps are filling my one 750lb bag, then one pump fills the front infloor bag and then the other pump fills the bag that sits where the cooler used to be. All we do now is surf and since I and my family all surf regular that was why I cut out the cooler. When filling up I start off with all pumps on and when the 2 400lb bags are full i just turn those off and the oneway valves keep water from draining. The one bad thing about my current setup is that I have to manually close the ball valve on the thru hull or water will drain out or the bags will self fill while underway. I will say I am looking at adding one or two more thru hulls and vented loops so I dont have to mess with the ball valve.
    Hey, Its Moomba time

    13 Mobius LSV
    08 Mobius LSV-sold
    03 Mobius LSV-sold
    life is about finding the balance between being a responsible adult and staying young at heart

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