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  1. #11
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Copperas Cove, TX
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    1,761

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    I would get a quality, efficient amp for any stereo...especially for tower use. I'm having 4 Bullet Hollow Point 770's on the tower running off of 2 JL Audio 1300 monoblock amps. Then I'll have 6 Polk db651's and a JL 10 or 12" sub off the 6 channel JL amp. I'm using 2 Deka AGM batteries with right at 200 amp hours for the stereo.

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Tigard, Oregon
    Posts
    3,016

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    Joe,

    Since you are running two speakers per channel at 2 ohms, each speaker would get 1/2 of the amps output per channel at 2 ohms, or 50 watts per speaker. The polk db651's are rated at 60 watts RMS so if you get a bigger amp, you couldn't use much more of it's power anyway. Suggest you wire it up with the JL and then see if you feel like you need more power/volume.

    Don't you also have 6 cabin speakers plus a sub? How do you plan to power them?

    Al
    Al

    2006 Mobius LSV

  3. #13
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Keuka Lake, NY
    Posts
    5,986

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    Al,

    Currently i have the jlm 6600 running channel 1 & 2 for the cabins, 3&4 to the towers (single pods only) and 5 & 6 to the sub bridged. the HU powers the bow speakers with a bass blocker at 120hz.

    I will try the JL this summer, i was looking at deals if my JL could not handle it, i guess it can. so i will probably wait to hear the extra podds on the towers.

    Newty thanks for th input. I am trying to help out the economy.
    A Day at the Lake...Priceless
    A Day in Powder...Endless


    Joe V
    2012 Möbius XLV~ Loaded & Exiled
    2007 Outback V ~ sold

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Tigard, Oregon
    Posts
    3,016

    Default

    Joe,

    You have the 4 cabin speakers wired the same way that you will wire the double ups on the towers. Do you feel like the cabin speakers are getting enough power?

    I remember your set up now because mine was going to be similar until I found a deal on the ZX700.5 that I couldn't pass up. You already have two batts and an ACR so adding a second amp won't be too bad.

    Al
    Al

    2006 Mobius LSV

  5. #15
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Keuka Lake, NY
    Posts
    5,986

    Default

    Al, The cabins are plenty loud but projecting the towers for behind the boat is different. I have not adjuted the gain at all on the tower channel for output and my amp is situated such that i need a cosmetic mirror to view the adjustments. I can't get the towers louder than the interior speakers which makes everyone deaf in the boat. I have pac lc1 on the towers but it only dials it back from the overall HU volume . I need it to go past the interior speakers. maybe i just need an eq for total control.

    I do have two batteries and the VSR. I also do not have much room for another large amp if i go that way. the OBV hole and storeage is quit small.i was think of adding the jl m2250 its small an compiments the 6600m

    http://signature.crutchfield.com/App...ssi=0&skipvs=T
    A Day at the Lake...Priceless
    A Day in Powder...Endless


    Joe V
    2012 Möbius XLV~ Loaded & Exiled
    2007 Outback V ~ sold

  6. #16
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Pacific NW USA
    Posts
    513

    Default

    jmvotto - A few thoughts for you on your system changes. You've gone the single amp route and have reached the max ability of that amplifier to satisfy you. Over time your needs have grown and the ability to scale your system upwards has reached its limit with your current gear. Here's what needs to happen. I'll break out by category:

    Towers: Your going to need to aquire a 2 ohm amplifier to run that double pair of Polks. Be advised that after you do install this amplifier, your still asking the amplifier to make some magic where it cannot because its powering car speakers in cans/pods and thus limits its projection abilities. You mentioned trying to get the towers louder than the cabin. This could indeed be a function of not enough power behind it. But I suspect when you step up to a big 2 ohm amplifier then you'll have the power to push any tower speaker but not the speaker to take the power. It's definitely a give or take situation here but the right thing to do is start to split out your system and drive the individual area's with dedicated power amplifiers. Long answer is, look into HLCD speakers if your still not happy.

    Cabin: Rather than having your cabin speakers powered by that over shared multi channel combined with HU outputs, you need to refocus ch's 1/2/3/4 on your cabin set up and yank out that blocker etc. Could you run out and buy a bigger amplifier? Sure! Do you need to? No way. You'll be plenty happy with what you have already. You could still use 5/6 for a sub but this is also an area that adding dedicated amplification would produce superior results.

    A few observations for the group: There is no such thing as having to much power available to you. Meaning having a big amplifier that has the ability to produce 2-3 times the rated power gives the user dynamic range. Likewise, having an amplifier that barely cuts it is asking it to run at 100% all the time. this is where distortion and other nasty buggers come into play. The user wants more, so he cranks up the gains, flips on bass boost, steps up the HU volume and up up and away he goes. The result is something that doesnt get much louder but infact sounds worse and distorted. SOLUTION: Split out your system with dedicated amplifiers and get yourself as much DYNAMIC RANGE AS POSSIBLE. (or your can afford - whichever comes first) hehe!

    With all this in mind, Newty is right! We all upgrade. Its just the nature of the beast. Speaking of which, I know that Mike has a big 2 ch kicker 2 ohm amp that he wont be using much longer. Not sure if he wants to part with it, but it would be ideal for the situation mentioned above. He's beta testing a new Exile 2 ch code name "Harpoon" --- if he ever gets it in his boat! I can tell you guys more about that later but don't want to hijack this thread.

    Hope this helps! If you need help with wiring diagrams on your reconfiguration give me a shout at brian@exileaudio.com and I'll steer you through it.

    peace!

    -Brian
    Exile Audio

  7. #17
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Tigard, Oregon
    Posts
    3,016

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jmvotto View Post
    Al, The cabins are plenty loud but projecting the towers for behind the boat is different. I have not adjuted the gain at all on the tower channel for output and my amp is situated such that i need a cosmetic mirror to view the adjustments. I can't get the towers louder than the interior speakers which makes everyone deaf in the boat. I have pac lc1 on the towers but it only dials it back from the overall HU volume . I need it to go past the interior speakers. maybe i just need an eq for total control.

    I do have two batteries and the VSR. I also do not have much room for another large amp if i go that way. the OBV hole and storeage is quit small.i was think of adding the jl m2250 its small an compiments the 6600m

    http://signature.crutchfield.com/App...ssi=0&skipvs=T
    Joe,

    The Polks on the tower are going to be very limited in their ability to project the sound back to the rider no matter how much power you give them. That's why I am replacing mine with the Kicker KMT6. They are definitely not the prettiest speakers but for a little over $200 a pair, it's the only affordable HLCD speakers out there. mmandley hooked me up with his when he upgraded to Exile (thanks Mike!) so I am going to give them a try. I don't normally have a need to listen to music while wakeboarding but what the heck, I am going to give them a try anyway. I am going to bridge channels 1 thru 4 on my ZX700.5 to run the Kickers.

    You could also get an HU with three sets of pre-outs so you can use the fader to control volume between the cabin and the tower speakers. You could also go the EQ route but then you are adding noise to the signal.

    If you decide to get another amp for the towers, viking's 250.2 at 125wx2 at 2 ohms should do the trick. Then you can run one set of pre-outs to the JL and the other to the Kicker and you can control the volume of the towers vs the cabins with the fader on the HU.

    As far as not being able to reach the controls on the amp easily, that's why I mounted mine upside down
    Al

    2006 Mobius LSV

  8. #18
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Stillwater, Oklahoma
    Posts
    319

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by cab13367 View Post
    Joe,

    The Polks on the tower are going to be very limited in their ability to project the sound back to the rider no matter how much power you give them. That's why I am replacing mine with the Kicker KMT6. They are definitely not the prettiest speakers but for a little over $200 a pair, it's the only affordable HLCD speakers out there. mmandley hooked me up with his when he upgraded to Exile (thanks Mike!) so I am going to give them a try. I don't normally have a need to listen to music while wakeboarding but what the heck, I am going to give them a try anyway. I am going to bridge channels 1 thru 4 on my ZX700.5 to run the Kickers.

    You could also get an HU with three sets of pre-outs so you can use the fader to control volume between the cabin and the tower speakers. You could also go the EQ route but then you are adding noise to the signal.

    If you decide to get another amp for the towers, viking's 250.2 at 125wx2 at 2 ohms should do the trick. Then you can run one set of pre-outs to the JL and the other to the Kicker and you can control the volume of the towers vs the cabins with the fader on the HU.

    As far as not being able to reach the controls on the amp easily, that's why I mounted mine upside down

    This is tantamount to a thread hijack, but....

    Cab-

    You mention using the 4 full-range channels of the Kicker 700.5 in bridged mode to run the KMT6's. I think you might be unhappy with that setup. The KMT6 is nominally a 4-ohm speaker, but it has an impedance closer to 3-ohms. That is a little low to run on a bridged amp. If your 700.5 starts cutting out at high volume, this will be the reason why. It might work for you, and it might not.

    If the KMT6's give the 700.5 fits, consider a different amp. An good example would be the ZX450.2 that delivers 150 watts into a 4-ohm load. That amp or another stereo amp like the 450.2 will run the KMT6's better than any bridged amp, due to the KMT6 impedance.

    FYI-

    Phil
    Kicker
    Last edited by philwsailz; 12-08-2009 at 05:31 PM.

  9. #19
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Keuka Lake, NY
    Posts
    5,986

    Default

    Al,

    I was wondering why Mike did not offer those too me. Maybe the whole control issue is in the head unit. the 6600 has three dedicate inputs.

    Vikings amp might do the trick but is 125 rms alot different than 100 rms in the scheme of things . do i need to go 300 X2 at 2 ohms to get the max benefit

    Brian, i certainly understand more watts and quality sound is better. and HLCD speakers are the tick. but iam not sure spending a 1,000 on speakers makes a ton of sense and my tower is 1 5/8" and most likely wont support the added weight very well.
    I was trying to ask what would be the best power to match up 4 polk 651 tower cans that are rated 65 rms and 150 max at a two ohm load. My JL will run at 100 rms which, i believe is 50 watts rms to each speaker, good clean sound.

    The bow speakers sound great from 22 rms with the lows cut off, no problem there. the cabins are cutout from the amp as wells as the towers due to the sub configuration. if they made an 8 channel, i think i would be all set. adding two big amps in the small OBV will be tough.

    I hate this site..... too many good ideas to spend money
    A Day at the Lake...Priceless
    A Day in Powder...Endless


    Joe V
    2012 Möbius XLV~ Loaded & Exiled
    2007 Outback V ~ sold

  10. #20
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Pacific NW USA
    Posts
    513

    Talking

    I think we all need to go back and read the original msg again. If I read correctly, he has 4 tower speakers and not looking to change. Rather, looking for the correct amplifier to match to them. Sure there's a fair point in saying that once he does that he still wont be satisfied, but lets all realize that the audio world is a journey and not a destination.

    To clarify: My suggestion was pick up a dedicated 2 ohm rated amp for the towers and utilize the existing multi channel for the rest of the system (cabin speakers). I think somehow down the thread we got the poor guy changing out his entire system muahaha! Dump everything, buy new! wait now, thats not right either.

    -Brian

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